Andy Smith 00:00 
A quick disclaimer before we begin, the PEMF podcast does not contain any medical advice and the content provided is for informational purposes only. If you have any health concerns, please visit a healthcare professional.

Welcome back to the PEMF podcast and today we're joined by Lucas Owen, known as Australia's leading biohacker to dive into testosterone, supplements, peptides, biohacking and much more. Lucas, welcome to the podcast.

Lucas Aoun 00:29 
Thanks for having me, Andy. I'm looking forward to having a great chat with you today.

Andy Smith 00:32 
And I think our first guest from Australia, so thanks for accommodating the time zones. We've got UK and Australia, two completely different ends of the globe, but in this episode, we're going to cut through the noise on what's actually driving testosterone levels today, how to avoid getting caught up by low quality supplements and which ones are genuinely worth your time. We'll also explore peptides, underrated compounds, and whereby our hacking tech, including PEMF, fits into performance and recovery. Let's kick it off with our quickfire questions. So we'll ask you a couple of quickfire questions, couple of heard answers, and then later on in the episode, we'll take a deeper dive into those. So for you, what's the biggest factor killing men's testosterone?

Lucas Aoun 01:16 
Yeah, so the biggest factor killing men's testosterone levels is definitely related to obesity. If you look at the statistics, a lot of, if you look at the data around testosterone levels, there's actually a strong correlation between body fat and also lower testosterone levels. So if we have a look at the global population, Andy, a lot of people are carrying excess body fat, particularly men, and that can actually increase the conversion of testosterone into estrogen through the aromatase enzyme. So they're actually more likely to have estrogen dominance, which is not ideal, obviously, if a guy is trying to feel and look his best.

Andy Smith 01:57 
One habit that boosts testosterone the most?

Lucas Aoun 02:00 
So the single habit to boost testosterone the most I would say is high-quality sleep.

Andy Smith 02:07 
It's a good answer. It's a good answer to most questions, to be honest. Is TRT overused?

Lucas Aoun 02:13 
TRT is overused in the younger generation. Not so much in the older men, so above 40 years of age. It's mostly abused and overused by men that are wanting to retain fertility because going on testosterone replacement therapy can oftentimes lead to poorer fertility outcomes in the future.

Andy Smith 02:36 
And one of the biggest scams in the supplement world right now?

Lucas Aoun 02:40 
Definitely Ashwagandha.

Andy Smith 02:41 
Okay, I've heard you speaking about that. We'll come to that.

Lucas Aoun 02:45 
Yep.

Andy Smith 02:46 
One supplement everybody should take?

Lucas Aoun 02:48 
Touraine, definitely Touraine.

Andy Smith 02:50 
One supplement most people should stop taking?

Lucas Aoun 02:53 
I would say calcium supplements.

Andy Smith 02:56 
Most underrated Biohack right now?

Lucas Aoun 02:59 
Using an acupressure mat before bed.

Andy Smith 03:02 
Okay, good one. And the last one, what's the one thing you do every day for your health?

Lucas Aoun 03:08 
I exercise every single day, even if it's low intensity, but most days it's moderate to high intensity.

Andy Smith 03:15 
No, good. So let's talk about testosterone. Let's take a deeper dive. Are testosterone levels actually declining in men today, or is that kind of been overblown by the media?

Lucas Aoun 03:27 
No, we're actually seeing a widespread decline in testosterone levels amongst men of pretty much all ages. Even the younger guys today we're seeing have much lower testosterone levels than, than their grandfather. So there's actually a saying, men today are not the men that their grandfather once was. And that's because there are many different factors playing a role here. Obviously, endocrine disrupting chemicals. There's a lot of research now indicating that we all have quite a significant amount of microplastics in our bodies. And so these microplastics can actually block the synthesis of testosterone and also block the receptors for testosterone. So they can't actually hit the receptor and perform its function. They're basically androgen receptor antagonists. So unfortunately, there are many different factors leading to lower levels of testosterone amongst men. The lack of sleep, the obesity, you know, the crappy diets, the stressful lifestyles, EMF, pollution, heavy metal toxicity, mold exposure, nutrient deficiencies, the list really goes on and on.

Andy Smith 04:42 
And for someone like me, what is a healthy testosterone level and how do I measure that?

Lucas Aoun 04:48 
Yep. So the most accurate and reliable way to assess a man's testosterone levels is through a blood test. Um, just like you'd go to your doctor and request a testosterone panel, which would also include total testosterone and also free testosterone, and then also sex hormone binding globulin or SHBG. Now a good level for you, someone like yourself, Andy, um, you're like what, uh, early thirties or late twenties.

Andy Smith 05:15 
No, thanks for that. I'm, uh, I'm 40 next year.

Lucas Aoun 05:17 
Oh, wow.

Andy Smith 05:19 
The biohacking is paying off.

Lucas Aoun 05:21 
Yeah, I guess you should teach me something, I guess, because I'm the one who looks 40. So for someone like yourself, man, I would say testosterone levels around 750 to 800 nanograms per deciliter is ideal for you.

Andy Smith 05:39 
And that's because and that's because there is a slight decline isn't there as you get older so...

Lucas Aoun 05:44 
There is yeah

Andy Smith 05:45 
Is there a kind of trend to follow.

Lucas Aoun 05:48 
It's pretty common, man, like a lot of people do see a decline after the age of 30, most guys do start to see a bit of a decline. But I truly do believe with the right ingredients, right the right supplements, the right lifestyle, the right nutrition, the right exercises, I think it's possible to maintain pretty high levels. In fact, I've actually, I actually built out a comprehensive guide like a full on course, it's TRT free calm. So TRT free comms a full like rundown protocol for guys that want to optimize without being on TRT.

Andy Smith 06:28 
Oh, cool. And so if we look at testosterone specifically right now, you've mentioned that there's, you know, obesity is a factor, EMS are a factor, you know, surrounding all different things that are contributing to low testosterone. But if you had to pick the biggest contribution to testosterone declines, what one out of those factors is it, do you think?

Lucas Aoun 06:53 
I would say, yeah, still going back to the obesity, like if you look at the epidemiological studies, they're sort of saying that it's actually obesity, because it increases inflammation, when you're carrying excess body fat, it increases inflammation. It's a real hormone disruptor being obese. But then second to that, if we're not looking at an obese population, and we're looking at a guy who's healthy, like yourself, who's not obese, then I would say stress and sleep would be also two big factors compromising testosterone.

Andy Smith 07:26 
Okay. And at what point do you think people should start looking at their testosterone? You know, should I have started way before now or should I start in my 50s? When's the best point to look at testosterone?

Lucas Aoun 07:37 
I would actually recommend any guy, once he hits around 19 or 20 years of age to do a testosterone panel, because I think about it like this, man, you want your testosterone levels to be sky high during those periods of your life in particular, because think about it, you're a little rookie. Like you're just, you've just come fresh out of high school. You got, you know, you got nothing under your belt. You haven't done anything with your life really. Like you haven't built, you know, like a company or I guess like what I'm trying to say is you haven't got wins under the belt and to get wins under the belt or wins behind you, you need testosterone. Testosterone fuels drive and motivation to win and to conquer. So, and obviously if you're entering into the dating market, obviously you want to have high testosterone levels to attract a partner, um, cause obviously that's gonna, like women can, can detect guys that have high testosterone based on their pheromones, like there's studies backing this and women will choose men that have higher testosterone.

Andy Smith 08:44 
Mm hmm. So someone listening to this might think, OK. Whether I'm going to look at my testosterone or not, testosterone sounds like a good thing. I want more of it. So I'm going to go out and get some TRT, some testosterone replacement therapy. Is that good advice or is it a quick fix or is it a long term solution? Where does TRT fit into all of this?

Lucas Aoun 09:05 
So TRT, in my opinion, is a very effective way to boost testosterone, but it's not the first line of choice and the first point of call for most guys. And that is because they should be optimizing their natural production first. If they've exhausted every possible route, they've tried the supplements, they've tried the peptides, they've tried the lifestyle, they've tried everything and their testosterone level still doesn't increase, then maybe TRT is suitable for them. But that's only really going to make up about 5 to 10 percent of the population. The rest of the guys out there should be dialing in all those other factors to optimize testosterone because if you look at it, low testosterone is a symptom of downstream imbalances or actually upstream imbalances. So it's a symptom of poor diet. It's a symptom of not enough exercise. It's a symptom of stress. It's a symptom... It actually... Your body won't produce testosterone if it doesn't get the right resources behind it.

Andy Smith 10:13 
And as with anything, you know, I do supplements for different things and, and I supplement NAD, but I don't actually supplement NAD. I try and work on the building blocks to create NAD. Same with stem cells. There's a good, there's a good stem cell supplement out now stemregen, which I use, and it's all about rather than just implanting stem cells. It's more about again, building on the blocks to rebuild your own stem cells. So do we look at this again with testosterone? Because you know, one of the things we hear quite a lot with people that are injecting testosterone or you know, even using steroids, that sort of thing. The risk is that the body kind of gets lazy later on in life and decides I don't need to produce this thing anymore. So is that something we should all consider? And like you just mentioned, like working on the building blocks for it.

Lucas Aoun 11:04 
Yeah, exactly. Spot on, man. So this is a good point, Andy. So ideally we want to be providing the body with the precursors it needs to synthesize testosterone. And so for example, most guys, when they think of precursors, they'll think of zinc. And they'll think of zinc as like, you know, the main mineral for testosterone. Zinc is one of many minerals that's important for testosterone. Um, it's just that when there's, when there's a zinc deficiency, the impact on testosterone is huge. Okay. It actually really does play a big role. It can drop testosterone levels by half, basically, if a guy is low in zinc. But if a guy is eating plenty of meat, seafood, oysters, organ meats, or even just beef or steak regularly, then there's a good chance he probably doesn't need to be mega dosing zinc. Um, but there are many other ingredients that I really like that can actually jack up natural testosterone levels without many major side effects and with the added benefit of it actually boosting fertility at the same time. Whereas with TRT, it's well known that TRT is a male contraceptive. It actually shuts down male fertility and also makes a man's balls shrink. So he basically will lose the size of his balls going on TRT.

Andy Smith 12:29 
And what's the biggest mistake that you see when people are trying to boost testosterone? So what's the first, you know, the first roadblock to avoid if someone's thinking about boosting their testosterone?

Lucas Aoun 12:41 
The first roadblock to avoid is by going on Amazon and typing in testosterone boosting supplement and buying the top rated testosterone boosting supplement because there's a good chance a lot of those ingredients in there are terrible and they're not going to really do much. They're not going to have much of an effect on testosterone. Two classic ingredients that you'll see a lot of guys think works, but doesn't is one, tribulus, and the second one is maca powder. So those two, they do have benefits, but they won't actually boost testosterone levels dramatically. They have some other extra, I was going to say extracurricular benefits. They have some other external benefits outside of testosterone.

Andy Smith 13:29 
And you mentioned sleep, how big of a role does sleep play in testosterone levels? Because, you know, is there an optimal amount of sleep? Like what kind of sleep? And, you know, I know there's only one kind of sleep a lot of the time, but, you know, it's. How should we be optimising that for our testosterone specifically?

Lucas Aoun 13:50 
Yeah, so there are studies showing Andy that if a guy sleeps five to six hours a night for about a week straight, his testosterone levels can drop by over 25%, which is pretty significant. And so when it comes to sleep, the most important thing is consistency and sticking to a routine because you want your body to know when it's time to fall asleep and know when it's time to wake up. So ideally, most guys should be aiming for around seven to nine hours of sleep. And ideally, I think eight hours is a good, a good sweet spot for most guys. But then there is a cohort of the population that can get by on about six and a half hours of sleep. There's a really small percentage of the population that can do that. But ultimately, I try and prioritize at least seven and a half to eight hours of sleep every single night.

Andy Smith 14:51 
And when it comes to diet, so you mentioned meat and that sort of thing, is there specific proteins like more calories or even fasting when it comes to the diet? What's the best way, most effective way to increase testosterone through the diet?

Lucas Aoun 15:08 
Yeah, so basically do everything, do the exact opposite to what the news and the media channels tell us about food. So that is the best foods to boost testosterone are meat, specifically saturated fats, such as steak, butter, meat, sorry, seafoods like oysters, shellfish, fresh wild caught salmon, eggs, obviously are an absolute staple. Olive oil, extra virgin olive oil is fantastic. Macadamia nuts, Brazil nuts. Actually, there's a type of nut called tiger nuts. Tiger nuts actually have some really cool research behind them to boost testosterone and then also certain veggies like onions. So onions actually have a beneficial effect on protecting the testes. So there's a range of different foods. The ones that I would recommend men avoid. First of all, don't be a soy boy. Okay. Drinking soy milk is not a good idea. So, you know.

Andy Smith 16:17 
Soy boy, I like that.

Lucas Aoun 16:18 
Yeah, so stay away from soy milk because it's high in phytoestrogens. And then even worse than that is actually beer. So beer is, contains hops, which is a really strong phytoestrogen. And that's also not great for men as well.

Andy Smith 16:37 
So it's interesting you mentioned beer because it's obviously perceived as such a match, you know, match and drink to have and, and actually, the guys don't realize but that's directly impacting their testosterone levels as well as multiple other things that beer does. So yeah, yeah,

Lucas Aoun 16:55 
Actually beer actually makes a man more feminine. It actually can increase the chances of developing gyno, which is man boobs. And it can also, again, shrink the gonads as well, which is, you know, not, not ideal if you're trying to impress.

Andy Smith 17:14 
No one likes a small set of balls, that one's going to get chipped up.

Lucas Aoun 17:19 
Straight up, yeah, spot on.

Andy Smith 17:21 
So we'll talk about some tech later on in this episode but there's a couple of trends online that want to bring up to you to see if there's any cloud in them so you know one of which is is icing your testicles whilst in a sauna. We see Brian Johnson doing that quite frequently and talking about it is is is there something to that and yeah what's the reasons behind that.

Lucas Aoun 17:42 
Yeah, so both Brian Johnson and Paul Saladino saw my video about this first, and I wish they gave me credit for it, but I was actually the first online to be saying that men should be icing their nuts when they're jumping into a sauna. Um, and there is legitimate science behind that because heat exposure, hot climates, and specifically heat to the testes can actually reduce fertility and also affect testosterone production. So ideally men should be keeping their balls pretty cool. Um, and just use an ice pack, like not up against the skin. Don't burn your skin on your balls, guys. Everyone listening in, you want to put the ice pack up against your jocks or your underwear, um, and just keep them cool like that.

Andy Smith 18:28 
And another one I saw online, which is kind of done a bit of a flip-flop, but the first time I saw it was to expose you balls to a red light panel, saying how good this is. But then I've recently seen some more videos, you never know what to trust online these days, saying that far infrared or near infrared, sorry, from the red light panels is no good for testicles. So what's your thoughts on exposing them to red light panels or red light devices?

Lucas Aoun 18:58 
Yeah, so I think there is some benefit to doing it, but I think most guys are overdosing. So I think it should just be like a really small amount of time on the testes, like the exposure to the testes from the red light. It's kind of like with sun exposure, you've heard sunning your balls. That's like pretty, that was also trending at one stage. Again, I think a lot of those guys who are doing that were overdoing it just too long in the sun. You just need a really small amount of time just to spark, like to spark the testes, give it a little bit of a pulse, like a pulse to kickstart production. Like I'm talking like three to five seconds.

Andy Smith 19:34 
And you hope that they've got privacy in their gardens, these guys as well.

Lucas Aoun 19:39 
A bit of morning sunlight.

Andy Smith 19:40 
A bit of morning sunlight exposure. No neighbours overlooking.

Lucas Aoun 19:45 
Yeah, make sure.  You got some good privacy in your backyard, lads.

Andy Smith 19:48 
Yeah. So let's talk about some supplements. What do you actually think are worth supplementing when it comes to testosterone and which ones you think are completely overhyped?

Lucas Aoun 19:59 
Yeah, so full disclosure, I've actually got a pretty comprehensive T-boost testosterone boosting supplement coming out in about six weeks time, which I've been formulating, oh man, it's taken over, over 12 months to get this formula down pat and bear in mind that in the lead up to this product that I've created, I've, I've been actually prescribing protocols to guys for many, many years. I've been, because I'm a naturopath by background, I've run the blood work on like over 500 different clients across the globe. So I know what actually had an impact on testosterone levels and which ingredients are complete BS. So throughout that time, I like basically shortlisted a range of different ingredients that I thought were ideal to satisfy that criteria. And then I decided to also incorporate other ingredients that do not have scientific research that proves that it boosts testosterone. But there's a reason why I've included it in the formulation. And it's because when you ask a guy, why are you taking a testosterone booster? The top three responses are, I want to build more muscle, I want better energy, and I want better libido. They're the top three benefits that a lot of guys want. They want building muscle, they want better energy, and they want higher libido. So in my formulation, I've satisfied that criteria by including a range of different ingredients. Now bear in mind, because something improves, let's say muscle growth, it doesn't necessarily mean that I can help with testosterone. Like there's not a, because you can build muscle through other vectors and other pathways in the body. You can build muscle through growth hormone, through IGF-1, through reducing or like modulating cortisol to a degree. So if you look at the ingredients that I've included in the formula, I won't disclose every single one, because there's eight ingredients in the product that I've created. But I'll name off a couple of them now, because people will be familiar with them. Boron is the dosage of 10 milligrams, can actually do something really cool inside the body. It can actually decrease SHBG, which is sex hormone binding globulin. When you decrease sex hormone binding globulin, you actually free up, you free up and liberate testosterone. So it increases free testosterone levels. And so the second ingredient as well beyond that, that supports testicular health, is actually a herb from Malaysia called Tonka Ali. Now Tonka Ali was huge after Dr. Andrew Hoopman mentioned it on the Joe Rogan podcast. Tonka Ali sales went through the roof, but I knew about Tonka Ali seven, eight years ago. And that ingredient has some really cool effects on fertility, testosterone, energy, stress, mood. So there are a couple of the ingredients that I've included in my product. But there are some others which can actually do a really good job as well.

Andy Smith 23:20 
And is there any out there that, so we'll talk a little bit more about yours as well. What was the name of your brand? Sorry.

Lucas Aoun 23:27 
Yeah, so my supplement brand is called InBefore, I-N-B-4, so it's spelled I-N and then B and then the number four, INB4.

Andy Smith 23:36 
And is that available now or is that very close? Okay, it's available now, so good. We'll leave a link to that underneath this episode. Is there any supplements out there that are really overhyped that you think should completely avoid? I know you mentioned going on Amazon and finding them on Amazon. I think, I mean, my opinion is just avoid any supplements in Amazon, even trusted ones, because we don't even know if they're the actual, the supplements, but.

Lucas Aoun 24:01 
You got to be careful with Amazon. Um, I would say the creatine gummies, man, oh man, I don't trust a lot of them. Personally, I think that a lot of them have, they're underdosed with creatine, but dude, like, how can people not just take creatine powder and mix it in water and shot it back? Like, how is it so difficult?

Andy Smith 24:22 
No i get you on that i put it on my morning smoothies and blend of an organ blend and i put some creatine in it. But actually a brand is just recently sent me some gummies try so it's a good point to take into note and i'll have a little look at it i claim to have five milligrams per grams. Five grams apparently per gummy so it's a.

Lucas Aoun 24:46 
I really doubt it. I mean, how big is the gummy?

Andy Smith 24:49 
I was thinking the same because you know when you get a scoop of five grams of protein it's twice the size of one gummy I get what you say now it's making sense.

Lucas Aoun 25:00 
Look, it's just, yeah, I don't know about that, but another one is actually those apple cider vinegar gummies, you seen those? Man, just have the apple cider vinegar, like do it the way it's supposed to be intended, but look, even ashwagandha is another one, like ashwagandha in my opinion, India actually just banned ashwagandha leaves, so they've actually disallowed the use of it because they know it's, you know, dangerous for human consumption. But in my opinion, I think ashwagandha is one of the most overrated supplements on the planet because it can lower cortisol, like it can it can make you feel like chilled and relaxed, but it has nasty side effects. And one of those side effects is that it can blunt your emotions and that can last for weeks after stopping. So people can feel like not depressed, but like just blah, like apathetic and hedonic. They don't want to do shit. They don't want to, they don't get rewards from things. They're just numb. So I just don't really recommend it anymore.

Andy Smith 26:12 
And it's a good point to talk about because I'm actually I take a coffee brand my days and they have four different plans one of their blends has ashwagandha in it so. Is that something to be concerned about do you think those levels will be generally quite small how are people taking these ashwagandha to have this kind of. Blah effect.

Lucas Aoun 26:33 
Yeah. So it's more of an issue in someone who's taking high dosages for a longer period of time. So 300 milligrams of KSM66 is the one that can cause issues for most people. But in general, if there's, if you want to lower stress, there's so many other good compounds that can do that. L-theanine, taurine, glycine, magnesium, apigenin, magnolia bark, choridalis, there's so many different options instead of ashwagandha.

Andy Smith 27:07 
And a good workout, as you mentioned before. So I'm coming to you from my home gym at the moment, because at the moment, my office and our podcast studio is moving. So, you know, one of my best hacks for stress is a good workout. There's nothing better than throwing some weights around.

Lucas Aoun 27:23 
Nothing better, man. If I do the assault bike, so if I do the exercise, I hate the most. First thing in the morning. So imagine this, the amount of resistance and willpower and like discipline you need to do the thing you hate the most first thing in the morning means that the rest of the day becomes easy, easy. So what I do is I go and I literally drive to the gym and I go on the assault bike and I'm doing 10 minutes on that. Well, usually about seven to 10 minutes, pretty much keeping a steady pace or do intervals and I'm, I'm not enjoying it, man. Like I'm not enjoying it at all. But I know that if I can get through that horrendous 10 minutes, then the rest of my day will be, I'm in a better mood, I'm better able to handle stress. I'm burning more fat. There's so many benefits just from 10 minutes. And then, you know, like basically what I'm saying is putting in, putting in the effort can result in an upregulation of the body's stress adaptability.

Andy Smith 28:34 
And so we've talked about testosterone quite a bit in this episode, and we've talked about icing and exposing balls to the sun, but we have a slightly heavier weighted female audience, so should females be supplementing with testosterone? Is that something they should be looking at themselves?

Lucas Aoun 28:55 
Um, so for most women after the age of 40, it can be beneficial to be using testosterone cream. Um, but there's actually a few ingredients that work really well for women. Tonka Ali is actually one of those herbs that, that can actually help women with low testosterone. So I like to use that one. And then also Shatavari. Shatavari is another herb, asparagus root. Um, there's a saying, they call it, um, Shatavari is for a woman with a thousand husbands. So, um, it's like a good, you know, fertility and aphrodisiac for women.

Andy Smith 29:35 
Mm-hmm. So just before we move off the testosterone subject, can you give us three top tips that you would do to increase your testosterone?

Lucas Aoun 29:46 
So the first tip that I'd recommend is doing some form of weight training. So that's like either deadlifting, squatting, you know, bench pressing, three to four times a week. And I'm talking six to eight reps, like go heavy. Basically what I'm saying is go heavy and hit large muscle groups. The second thing would be to ice your balls three times a day for about 10 to 15 minutes. That works really well. I've seen blood work before and after with a lot of my guys, a lot of my clients and they've seen huge benefits. No pun intended. And that's not.

Andy Smith 30:18 
even going in sawn-e-use, that's literally just sitting at home icing in front of the TV.

Lucas Aoun 30:23 
Yep, or even at work, you know.

Andy Smith 30:27 
Or could when someone walks in the office. Quick question.

Lucas Aoun 30:31 
And the third thing I would say is to eat more organ meats, so liver, desiccated hearts, kidneys, pancreas, spleen, you know, their organ meats are so high in bioavailable nutrients that a lot of guys feel great when they have those foods.

Andy Smith 30:51 
Yeah. Okay. Good. And, you know, the people that don't want to cut open a heart or a liver on their table and, and, and eat it, you know, there are some really good supplements out there. I take one myself. It's called organized. It's, it's available in the UK and the US, maybe not Australia yet, but good personal friend of mine selling that product. And it's all from good regenerative farms in the UK. So check those out. Supplements. Let's talk about some supplements we've, we've, we've mentioned creating

Lucas Aoun 31:21 
Mm hmm.

Andy Smith 31:22 
I take it, it's one of the few supplements I do take. Um, I put it in my morning shake. You've mentioned gummies, but why is there a bit of a buzzword and trend going on with creatine at the moment? Why is everyone putting it into their diet and why should people be doing it?

Lucas Aoun 31:39 
Yeah, so creatine is a versatile supplement. It can be used for gym performance, for cognitive health, for many other aspects of physical and mental performance. But there's actually a fact about creatine that not many people really know about, and that is how to actually make it work better. And one of these tricks that I recently learned is that the creatine, basically, if you want creatine to work well in your cell, you need it to cross the transporter. So there's a particular transporter called the SLC-6A8 transporter. I just remembered that off the top of my head. And that basically, if you upregulate that transporter, you can actually supercharge the effects of creatine. So one way to do that is actually by taking your creatine with salt. So adding salt to your creatine can actually amplify the effects you're getting intracellular hydration and extracellular hydration or volumization effects. And then salt by itself is actually a known ergogenic pre-workout enhancer. So with creatine, what I would recommend is doing five to 10, so doing five grams four times a day for a week with sodium, with salt, and then going down to five grams a day with salt, like obviously using a good quality salt. Don't use a crappy iodized salt from the supermarket that has caking agents and all that rubbish. Go for like a Celtic sea salt or a Himalayan sea salt. And that can work really well. So the good thing about creatine is the risk for kidney damage, that's complete BS. Like it's only really an issue for guys or individuals who have a known kidney defect or an issue with kidney health, but otherwise creatine works really well, man. It works really well.

Andy Smith 33:46 
And I've seen you on some of the videos, whether it's yourself or whether you've been talking about it, actually snorting creatine, so, you know, not a video that people put out quite often, snorting white powder, but what's, what's all that about?

Lucas Aoun 34:00 
Yeah, so there is actually some decent amount, a decent amount of research looking at intranasal creatine, so creatine up your nose. Now, the study here wasn't using creatine monohydrate. They use a different form of creatine, but there's actually some pretty big pharmaceutical companies that want to trademark using creatine in a nasal spray. And they want to get crea- because it gets into the brain quicker. And if you get creatine into the brain more effectively, you get all the brain benefits of creatine, which are improved cognition, more alertness, better concentration, without many major side effects.

Andy Smith 34:39 
And it's something you said in there was quite important. So it's not necessarily the supplement that everybody's taking. So I shouldn't just go to my cupboard, get my creatine out and start sorting it. Is there a particular type I need, I would need to look at before, you know, trying to do it intranasially.

Lucas Aoun 34:58 
Uh, so I'm pretty sure it's, um, dodecyl creatine, uh, no, creatine hydrochloride. Creatine hydrochloride, but, but this one is not commercially available yet. So like it's basically, I'm ahead of the time here. Um, I'm in before hence the name of my supplement brand in before.

Andy Smith 35:20 
Okay. So don't start snorting creatine just yet. Wait until there's a bit more evidence and the right stuff is coming out to the market. Okay. Just to clarify that for the listeners. When it comes to creatine, because as I say, I use creatine, but as with any supplement, as with any product, there's a lot of noise out there. How do I know that a creatine is a good one?

Lucas Aoun 35:42 
Okay, so if somebody's listening to this and they want to use the highest quality creatine on the market, I've done my research on this and I can confidently say that Crea Pure is, it is very, it is very clean. It's from German-grade creatine, but there's actually an even purer version of creatine out there and it's actually called Purist Creatine by N&B Nutrition. Now, this is not a finished product. It's actually an ingredient manufacturer that I'm actually working closely with from N&B Nutrition. So they're actually claiming that they're the world's cleanest creatine in terms of not having impurities or contaminants because a lot of funnily enough, man, a lot of creatines actually have contaminants and DCD, there's DHT, there's things in these creatine products that are, they're not ideal, you know.

Andy Smith 36:44 
Okay so it's just is there one of the readily available the market now did you say that people should move towards.

Lucas Aoun 36:52 
Um, yeah, so it's called purist creating, P-U-R-E-S-T, purist creating.

Andy Smith 36:59 
Okay, cool. And is there anything out there that's quite underrated in your terms that people should be paying more attention to?

Lucas Aoun 37:08 
Um, you know what, man, I've recently just got into photo bio modulation. Have you? Do you sell a PBM device at all?

Andy Smith 37:18 
Yeah, yeah, as in the red light panels or...

Lucas Aoun 37:21 
Uh, no, low level laser light therapy, LLLT

Andy Smith 37:24 
Yeah, I mean, it kind of gets confused, isn't it, because a lot of people call red light near infrared panels, both by modulation, it kind of half crosses in between it. But low level laser is also an older term that's now turned into it. There's a lot of confusion around the terms. We actually had someone on the podcast, James Carroll, if anyone wants to back to that one to listen to the differences between the different technologies. But yeah, in terms of low, in terms of laser red lights or near infrared, that's not something we offer.

Lucas Aoun 38:02 
Yeah, well, I only recently got into it about a month ago, but it's photobiomodulation, so 1070 nanometers. So 1070 nanometers, which is not visible to light. There is a product, well, there was a company that I heard about many, many years ago. It was called Vylite, you may have heard of them. They're pretty popular, but it's not the Vylite. It's actually a company called Neuronic. And they sent me this helmet. That's like 1070 nanometers. And I've been using that in the mornings. And dude, it actually, I'm shocked at how effective it is. Like I feel extremely alert and switched on and coherent. I don't even need, I don't even drink coffee myself, but it feels like when I have a coffee, it switches my brain on. And I feel like my dreams have been so, so vivid since I started doing that.

Andy Smith 39:04 
You know the intensity of that so obviously ten seventies in the near infrared range but it probably comes down to the intensity of the of the.

Lucas Aoun 39:14 
I'm pretty sure it's either 10 Hertz or 100 Hertz. Would that be right?

Andy Smith 39:20 
That will be the frequency that it will pulse, so that will be pulsing the light at those different frequencies, which I think a lot of those helmets do.

Lucas Aoun 39:32 
Our pulse is 14 Hertz. Our intensity was 100% according to this, but I'd have to... Yeah, that's interesting.

Andy Smith 39:42 
listening to know. I love a look at that one.

Lucas Aoun 39:45 
man, like it's, I mean, like put it this way. Um, the theory behind it is that our mitochondria can absorb light. You've probably already read about this through red light therapy, but, um, but to get it into the skull, it needs to penetrate the cortex. So it's a heart. It's a hard tissue to penetrate. So they believe that this does actually penetrate the brain.

Andy Smith 40:11 
Yeah yeah so near infrared will go deeper into the skin and into the into the body and that comes down to the power as well so i'll check that out and find out because it's another device i'm looking to get is actually the helmet i think you're playing red light and photo biomodulation to the head is is incredibly effective so no it's a good one to a good one to bring up

Lucas Aoun 40:30 
Yeah, for sure.

Andy Smith 40:31 
You mentioned touring a little bit earlier. You know, there was a there was a rumor going around years ago. I don't know. I should have checked this out before the podcast. But, you know, Red Bull used to have touring in it in the UK. And then I think at some point it got taken out. People would say that it was derived from bull semen. How much truth is in that? And what what is touring to clear that one up?

Lucas Aoun 40:57 
All right, so first of all, taurine is something that most people listening to this podcast right now have probably consumed if they've eaten an egg or a steak or even nuts or even seafood, because taurine is actually found in food. And taurine is what I would say is a calming anti-anxiety amino acid. Now, interestingly, taurine deficiency or low taurine intake can actually accelerate aging. And Dr. David Sinclair, you've heard him on Joe Rogan, Stephen Bartlett's podcast. He talks about metformin, NMN and rapamycin. But I think taurine should be up there amongst those as an anti-aging supplement, because it's an osmolite. It's a protectant against cells. In fact, in Japan, they still prescribe taurine to patients with heart failure, which goes to show you that it's so incredibly important for the heart, the cardiomyocytes, the heart health. And then it's also really important for balancing electrolytes. So, man, I take three to five grams a day and I don't think I'll ever stop.

Andy Smith 42:18 
Yeah. How do you take that? So how does taurine come typically? Is it in powder form again?

Lucas Aoun 42:26 
powder form, yep, it can come in capsule form but those capsules are usually like 500 milligrams so it's not high enough.

Andy Smith 42:33 
Okay, cool. And do you think if you're taking an organ supplement that you need additional taurine or is that going to suffice? Just ask for my own benefit here.

Lucas Aoun 42:46 
You're taking like desiccated heart in a big dose that I'd say probably getting a big amount of taurine but you need high doses of taurine like you need three to five grams which sort of like a creatine dose if you look at it

Andy Smith 43:01 
Yeah. Okay. So just rounding up the supplement side of things, you know, what, what do you think is the biggest waste of money in the supplement world right now? Something that's got a lot of hype and is wasting people's money.

Lucas Aoun 43:13 
Um, so I would say athletic greens. So AG one of throwing the bus personally, I've been thrown under the bus.

Andy Smith 43:21 
quite a lot recently, haven't they?

Lucas Aoun 43:23 
Well, because they should be. I mean, the formula is complete BS. They're hiding ingredients. I just don't like the way they do things. That's nothing I'll ever do with my own supplement brand in the future. The one that I'm building now, everything is transparent. I'm telling everyone what dosage of what ingredient is in the product. Athletic greens, they hide ingredients behind labels. So people don't know. But dude, the thing is, the average consumer has no idea. Like people are so brainwashed when they see marketing, they're good at. If it's a sexy ad and it appeals to their emotion, they're going to buy it without even researching it. So that's one of my pet hates. I'm like a formulator, so I care about this stuff. But yeah, I'd say be careful of those those sort of products.

Andy Smith 44:14 
Another one that's hit the market recently is that I am eight, you know, and they're doing, doing the same as athletic greens, you know, big marketing campaigns. David Beckham's their poster boy, you know, all these sorts of things. So have you seen their formulation? Do you think it's any better or is it just another?

Lucas Aoun 44:30 
I did a YouTube video breakdown, um, covering their entire stack. So it is an upgrade from AG1 in my opinion, but still there's ingredients in there that I don't recommend. Um, a one size fits all supplement rarely works because there is no one size fits all supplement for you or for me or for anyone listening to this. Like what if you are sensitive to one of the herbs that they put in their product? So what, you know what I mean? Like you should be taking it.

Andy Smith 45:04 
So that kind of comes my last question on the side of things is you know should we be focusing on taking like the multivitamin of supplements or should we be really focusing on like three or four main ones person specific.

Lucas Aoun 45:17 
Yeah, exactly, man. So vitamin D, because you can't get vitamin D from food, or in the sufficient amount. Vitamin D supplements are important. Magnesium is another one that's hard to get from food. Ideally, I want you to be outside in the sun for vitamin D, but most people can't do that. And then for others, sometimes it's omega threes, that can be beneficial. But you know, you see, you see those multi vitamins, a lot of them like really bad forms of the ingredients. And they have bad dosages or incorrect dosages. Because the people formulating these products, man, they actually don't care. They literally don't care about the end consumer, they just want to make money. And they will cut corners in any way possible. And I know how they cut corners because I'm a formulator. So I know where you can cut corners. You can cut corners on dosages. You can cut corners on on the form. And multivitamins in general, because a lot of them have calcium. Calcium shouldn't be supplemented for most people. Like if you're under the age of 65, taking a calcium supplement doesn't really yield much benefit. Unless you're like vegan, or you're just like, not eating. Yeah.

Andy Smith 46:39 
No, it's an interesting point because we see the same thing in the PMF industry and I share the same frustration because I'm in PMF every day. I know what makes a good PMF, I know what makes a good magnetic field. We see people cutting corners all the time, putting tiny little copper coils into their mats, not a very good field. In fact, sometimes even dirty electricity coming through, there's a huge brand in Australia and the UK that have the lowest grade PMF device that we have ever seen. I don't name names, but fear of getting sued. But, you know, there's some cowboys out there. And if you go on these people's Instagrams, all they want to do is show how much money they've made that year instead of maybe people they're helping with PMF devices or the supplements. So you can kind of tell. Let's talk about peptides, because that's a hot topic at the moment. What's your take on peptides?

Lucas Aoun 47:40 
Well, so the peptide space has, is booming now. I mean, Andy, you've probably noticed everywhere online, everyone's talking about peptides. The beginner introductory peptide was definitely BPC157 that was like, because that led the pack and it just clearly worked and it had so many benefits, people were like, shit, peptides are actually effective and they actually do work. But, but then the problem began when underground websites would manufacture peptide products and they'd be making them in someone's garage and it's just full of contaminants and pollutants and endotoxins. And then before you know it, every second person is injecting peptides and they're not properly vetting where they're getting them from. And I love, I love hearing it when I go to the gym. Oh bro, have you tried this peptide or bro? Like guys, where are you sourcing your peptides from? Oh, my, my, my supplies legit. Yeah. He's, it's clean. It's super clean. No. Like, how do you know it's clean? You know what I mean? Like it's, it's in every second gym right now.

Andy Smith 48:53 
Yeah, and you know, the problem is it's all being labeled now, isn't it, as research only because of that's the best way to get it to market, which means that there's a lot less regulation on it, which means it can be pretty much made anywhere. You know, there's a lot of people out there that I find quite funny that are taking research only peptides that are huge anti-vaxxers and it's kind of like, okay, where did you draw the line here? You know, you're not trusting this vaccination, but you are trusting Dave, who makes some peptides in his bathtub. It's kind of a bit of swings and roundabouts, but people say they're a safe alternative to steroids a lot of the time, I hear. What do you think about that?

Lucas Aoun 49:40 
Yeah, that's a good, that's a good one. So there are definitely safer alternatives to steroids. And they are compounds that boost growth hormone, like in a more natural sense. So certain peptides such as tessamorylin, CJC 1295, Hippomerrelin. I mean, these have documented benefits for boosting growth hormone production. And also IGF-1, which is the most anabolic hormone in the male body. It's not testosterone, it's actually IGF-1. So if you ramp up IGF-1, you will support muscle growth and recovery. In fact, there's a particular peptide called IGF-1-LR3, which is actually a sort of modified version of IGF-1, that when you inject it, can actually, you know, increase IGF-1 levels dramatically. And then also, for the guys that I know that have used it, I haven't yet, but I will. They've reported much better pumps in the gym, feeling just stronger, and a little bit more water retention. They can eat more without, like they just need to eat more food. They can lower their blood sugar up. So yeah, that's another one to keep an eye out for.

Andy Smith 51:00 
So, say for example we are getting peptides from a good supplier, you know, we've been to their factory or we, you know, we see that it's a good peptide, it's a good formulation and we're using that peptide, are there other risks or downsides peptides even in good products?

Lucas Aoun 51:24 
Yeah, so the other downside even, let's say somebody's sourced a high-quality peptide but they have administered it incorrectly. So for example, they haven't used an alcohol swab to wipe the vial, they haven't used, well they've, they better be using bacteriostatic water or backwater. But it's more so around the dosages and the frequencies. So using the wrong dose and also the wrong frequency, that can be an issue. Like and also the time of the day as well. Some of them work better in the morning, others work better at nighttime. But to be honest, there's actually no, I'll be honest with you man, there's actually no verified legitimate, credible, reliable, fixed dosage protocol for every peptide that's out there right now. It's actually still very much an experimental game right now. So it's like, people are just sort of, they're winging it. You know, they're sort of winging it. They're like saying, oh yeah, I need MOTC three milligrams, three times a week. The other guy's saying, I need one milligram, five times a week. Like based off what? You know, like based off what?

Andy Smith 52:37 
I think that's a really good point to make. Um, you know, it's just, it's not even the formulation. It's how we're taking them how frequently and how we know we should be taking them. So let's fast forward 10 years and the peptides are tried and tested and they're delivering the results that people said they are now, do you think the average user should start taking peptides at that point, or do you think these are really for the athletes and the advanced people that should be looking into peptides?

Lucas Aoun 53:08 
Now I think the average user at that point in time will have so much data in 10 years time from now. So I'll be what? Turning 90 in 10 years from now. Clearly they're working. So if you look at the research there, I mean, by that stage, I reckon there's gonna be a huge amount of data out there. But then again, it's like, well, there's so many other areas to optimize your biology instead of addressing, experimenting with peptides. There's so many other areas to focus on.

Andy Smith 53:47 
And you kind of mentioned that you were or aren't, or have experimented with peptides in the, in the past, are you using peptides or is it, are you still kind of dabbling and getting any results or

Lucas Aoun 54:00 
I'm a dabbler, like I've played with some, I've been disappointed with some, I've been pleasantly surprised with some, I've been, but I'm not confident of my supplier right now, like I, again, it's like, I'm not, that's why I haven't locked in yet, because I haven't, I've got a facility in Adelaide, in Australia that I'm going to be partnering with soon, that I trust that they are the biggest manufacturer in Australia of peptides. So, and doctors can only prescribe them. So yeah, I've got obviously got contacts that can help me there. But yeah, like in terms of MOTC, MOTC for me, have you heard of MOTC? No, I haven't. MOTC is like the mitochondrial peptide. It's like the popular one right now. For me, that one there was a bit of it's hard to say, man, because like, again, my baseline is already so damn high. You know, it's like, I'm not some lazy ass guy sitting on a couch who's overweight, who doesn't optimise, like I'm already very dialled in. So for me, MOTC didn't really offer me a whole lot. Beyond what I could do with supplements, you know, like I can I can achieve the same outcome with certain supplements. So BPC 157, that changed my life, that actually helped heal my meniscus, which did a great job. It also boosted my deep sleep when I used it. And then Ipomerrelin just messed me up. Like it just made me flushing, like flush heart rate elevations. Retatrutide is the by far the most popular one right now. Reta, you've probably heard of it, seen it posted. Yeah, man, that drug, I haven't tried it, but I I've got enough data to know what it's going to do. It's going to make me like anorexic. Like I won't be able to eat if I have it. And also, it's not something that I encourage people to jump towards because there are other ways to drop body fat than relying on Reta. There are so many other better ways to do that.

Andy Smith 56:23 
And I'm quite a novice in the peptide industry. I've looked at it, I've tried to learn a lot about it, but for me, I lean a lot more into the tech side of things. And when people have asked me why I'm not taking peptides, a lot of the time I'm saying to them, well, I'm training, I'm using PMF therapy every day, I'm using red light therapy, I've got sauna and ice bar for my garden. And I noticed that you, like me, is just invested in a hyperbaric oxygen chamber for your home too. So, you know, you don't have to spend in excess of a hundred thousand pounds for oxygen therapy anymore, you can get, you know, a soft shell, which actually at home is kind of all you need if you're going to use it more frequently. But how, you know, I've seen your Instagram, it's great, I like the way that you're leaning into the tech too, but you know, how important is the tech side of things for you when it comes to your health and biohacking? Yeah.

Lucas Aoun 57:22 
Yeah, it is it is man. I've I mean the hyperbaric oxygen chamber that I've got Is goes up to 1.5 ATA. So look, it's it is something that I'll be using long term I know the benefits of hyperbaric oxygen therapy They're there. They're like it's there's no debating whether or not it works. It absolutely works There's enough science behind it You know boosting your your body's production of stem cells Reducing inflammation. I Like the use of tech devices. Yeah, I'm getting I'm probably getting more into it. Like I probably started With like drugs and supplements and just like how can I optimize with with drugs and supplements and peptides? but now in the end, I'm just like mmm, I Think there's there are some better ways to to optimize and I think yeah things like PMF Sauna I don't do the sauna much at all be honest Rarely rarely

Andy Smith 58:28 
Is there a reason for that or?

Lucas Aoun 58:31 
Yeah, because I sweat enough when I train. So like, I know you can get the car to, I'd rather train. Like, you know, Sauna is the lazy man's method to sweating, you know.

Andy Smith 58:42 
God I've asked you to work out for the lazy man.

Lucas Aoun 58:45 
Exactly. There you go. And then also, I feel pretty drained the next day after sauna. I don't know. Just feel depleted. Yeah. And I think that's where people...

Andy Smith 58:58 
People are misusing certain things, you know, sauna and ice baths for me are stresses of the body. They're not really there to give you energy or, you know, it's there to detox, but actually when people say, you know, they've done a sauna and ice bath this morning and they come to work and they're feeling like amazingly energized and they're not, you just don't feel like that afterwards. You know, you feel quite like you say, you know, you've had a workout or you feel quite tired. So the opposite with hyperbaric for me, you know, when I come out of the chamber, I feel full of oxygen, full of full of energy, depending on what time of day that you're using it and how long you're using it for. But so what's what was your go to probably top three tech that you use? Would you say?

Lucas Aoun 59:41 
Um, the first one I would say is extremely bright light first thing in the morning. Like sort of like a light box, um, which helps me get up more than anything else that I've tried. Um, again, it's literally 10, 10 to 15 seconds in front of a super bright light when obviously the sun's not up yet. Cause I get up before the sun gets up, um, or rises. So that, that helps that, that actually really works. And I'm sure you've, have you tried that before?

Andy Smith 01:00:13 
I get up not as frequently in the UK as when the sun comes up because it's like sub-zero temperatures here most of the year, but you know, I do try and navigate my circadian rhythm and get up as close I can to summarise.

Lucas Aoun 01:00:28 
Yes, yes. So for me, that's pretty good. Number one, number two, I would say the photobiomodulation, I'm probably going to get into that a little bit more. After my good experience, I'm going to try some different devices. I might even try the violet. And then the hyperbaric chamber would be number three for me. Yeah.

Andy Smith 01:00:50 
Yeah, no, good. And just talking about PMF specifically, what was your first, you know, what was your first experience with PMF? When was you introduced to it?

Lucas Aoun 01:00:59 
Yep, so my first experience was one of my best friends at naturopathy school, who used PMF to help heal his sciatica injury. So he was using that. And I remember lying on it, he put it on the car, I think it was the Beamer. So it was one of those really good ones. Cost a lot. And I laid down on it. And I think I like almost fell asleep. It was that it was that powerful, the relaxation setting. But to be fair, man, I actually, I want to start to what I'm doing at nighttime is and you should see my bedroom, how many sleep hacks are in there. It's insane. But right now I've got the acupressure mat, you've seen those just despite nails, man, it really helps me to fall asleep. So I force and put it on the ground and I lie back on it, like bare skin with my back. It hurts, obviously, but then I fall asleep. Like, bust. But I really want to start using your PEMF mat before bed. I haven't actually shipped to Australia, I'm pretty sure, right?

Andy Smith 01:02:09 
Yeah, we do. I'll have to send you one because yeah, good for you to experience that. And actually, you mentioned acupuncture mats and a lot of people are putting those on top of PEMF mats now. So you said about, you know, using it outside with with grounding. It's it's it's the same benefit. You know, if you can put push the acupuncture points and the kind of almost like needles into the back and then apply a PMF device, it's it's almost like a shortcut and speeds it up even further.

Lucas Aoun 01:02:35 
Yeah, I'm definitely keen to give that a shot, man. But the one thing I never really understood about PMF was, is there like a guide or a book that tells you which frequency hits which channel or meridian? Or, you know what I mean by that? Like, which I'm sure you get asked this a lot.

Andy Smith 01:02:56 
Yeah, it's a common question and we've done a couple of episodes where we talk about this. Actually, one which you will probably be coming on straight after, we've done an episode with Brian Myers and we talk about frequencies specifically. And actually, so if people want to take a deeper dive into that, they can zip back one episode and listen to that one. But my take on this and my opinion is that we shouldn't get lost in specific frequencies for specific issues and meridians. We should use frequencies determining on the time of day. So, actually, we use a higher frequency in the morning and a lower frequency in the evening. So, it actually, PMF therapy has been shown to change and influence brain states. So, what we're trying to avoid is, for example, a device will say high frequency, it will say like 50 hertz for arthritic knee. And what people will do is they'll apply it to their knee or they'll sit on a mat at eight in the evening, apply 50 hertz, which is quite a high frequency that you'd get in the morning, and they won't sleep that night. So, we steer away from that. Actually, applying PMFs at any frequency has effects on the cells, has effects on the body, creates that healing energy. So, really, it's more about prioritizing your circadian rhythm than anything else. So, using higher frequencies in the morning, lower frequencies in the evening. So, the Beamer, I think you mentioned, that's a German-made product, good device, actually. Personally, I think it's a little bit overpriced because it's sold through multi-level marketing, which kind of just bumps the price up a little bit. A lot of people mission to be paid in the process of sale. But as a product, it's generally quite a good product. But you want to be looking on there for which ones have the higher frequencies and apply those earlier on, and then which ones have the lower frequencies and apply those later on. So, as just a guide, if anybody's got one of those devices, or looking at getting one. So, yeah.

Lucas Aoun 01:04:57 
that's helpful, helpful to know, man, because I'm like, I want to start recommending them to my clients, but I just don't know exactly how to do it. Yeah, I'm keen to give yours a try. Like definitely looking forward to that.

Andy Smith 01:05:09 
Yeah, definitely. I'll send you off accelerate for sure, because, you know, we simplified it by making it a morning program and an evening program. So it really does, you know, takes all the guesswork out of it. And that applies the right frequencies in the morning and the right frequencies after lunch for the body to.

Lucas Aoun 01:05:24 
With some of the high frequencies, for example, is it possible people can get a bit of a, like a, not a detox reaction, but like a pretty strong effect if they go, if they're a beginner, complete novice, like,

Andy Smith 01:05:40 
Yeah, you're probably talking about high intensity. So again, that's where we talk about higher intensity strength. So PMF comes in in frequencies, but it also comes in high intensities. Okay. And yes, there is such thing where people can go too much too soon. And we see that it's very rare, but we see it when people try a very high intensity device more frequently, and they just go in at the highest intensity, most power they can, high frequency and for too long. And then what can happen is you have something called over detoxification, which is like where the cells just go into some mode. They, they detoxify and it gives you a bit of a like a flu like symptom for a few days. So it's something you try and avoid because obviously if that's your first experience with PMF, then it might put you off. So we always say start low and slow. So even if you go to a clinic and they've got a high intensity device, don't go in there and use it as high intensity as you can. First couple of sessions, do a lower frequency, a lower intensity, make sure your body can accept it before going, you know, all going gun, gun ho with it. But yeah, definitely something to know. And a good question.

Lucas Aoun 01:06:56 
And in terms of the, it just has to be on any contact with any part of the body, right?

Andy Smith 01:07:01 
Yeah, so depending on the device you get, like I said before, there are there are some kind of cowboys out there that have very small coils, not even across the full entire mat. So sometimes you get these mats that are full size body, but it really determines where the coils are in there. If they've only got a couple in them in the mat, magnetic fields will lose intensity every one centimeter, you get half the intensity. So if you imagine a very low intensity device and only a couple of coils, a couple of centimeters away from it, you've lost intensity. So really you want to get a good mat with a good spread of coils, or it comes with a localized applicator, so you can apply it to that area of the body. And with Celerate, with the mat, with the applicator, you get about two meter field range. So that will give you a basis of putting somebody on there, that will go through within two meters of those areas. So it all depends about the localized of where you can apply them. But I always recommend a full body mat. In most cases, it's just easier to apply and you get the most coverage across the whole body. So if people are looking at getting one, fitting it into your life is very important. So yourself, myself, we do spend some time in our office chair. I've got one sitting on my office chair. So, you know, if it's something that you can't add another 10 minutes, 15 minutes to your day, then try and figure out ways in which you can put it in your office chair or even using it in a car seat or something on the commute to work. Then you can do it without interfering with your day. But for me, a lot of people were injecting peptides and that sort of thing at the moment, they talk about the benefits of those peptides. And I'm like, well, things like PMF therapy, it does the same. It has the same outcome, the same benefit. And in the industry of over 50 years of PMF devices, there's still no known side effects from PMF therapy. So for me, it's a bit of a known brainer. It's something that you can take risk-free.

Lucas Aoun 01:09:04 
Well, it's like, I mean, yeah, it just doesn't seem as sexy and as direct, you know, like as peptides is like, Oh, you're injecting a substance into your body. Wow. Must be so effective. But then it's like, yeah, man, like you're injecting a foreign substance into your body, like get ready for the, get ready for the ride. Like you think you're going to be like symptom free. You're going to get all the upsides without any downside. That's not true. Like it will sway another system. It could sway another system out of balance. Um, and then in terms of the, like the PMF makes sense. I mean, if you're manipulating frequencies, I'm pretty sure that the technology originate like, was it in Germany or something like, oh wait, Nikola Tesla is the, is.

Andy Smith 01:09:53 
Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, that's the very first origination of magnetic fields. He was using it for more into telecommunications, that sort of thing. Then people started to realize that when applying it to the body, it had all these positive effects. NASA got involved. They started doing studies on how it affects the cells. But I think it was really Germany that was the ones that kind of turned it into more of a commercial device so people can actually use it for health benefits. And then the Americans got involved and jacked up the power. So there's a lot of a power thing going on in America with lots of high-intensity devices, which people don't really need. They don't need that much power when it comes to PMF. But, you know, a good PMF device, anything up to about 100 gauss in intensity is all we need for the home use. So yeah, people can just apply those. And like I say, it's an all-around treating of the cells. So, you know, maybe start there rather than injecting peptides. But we never know, you know, once it's a bit more regulated and the proof's in the pudding, then might be a good combination. Anyway, Lucas today, you know, thanks so much for your time. It's been a really good episode. I wanna just wrap up. And, you know, you've got your supplement, I-B-I-N-B-4. In before? Yep. And your testosterone protocols keeping you pretty busy at the moment. But for anyone listening, then they wanna take a deeper dive into your work and the mission behind what you're building. Where's the best place for them to start? How do they find you? How do they look at your supplement? Or that sort of thing.

Lucas Aoun 01:11:29 
Yeah, appreciate it, Andy. It's a bit of fun chat and we could probably do it around too. But for those listening in, they can just search boost your biology on YouTube and go over there and please subscribe. There's over a thousand like comprehensive videos. There's so much value. It's like, you know, this is a Monday and I've I filmed seven YouTube videos this morning. So I'm like, I'm pretty knackered. But yeah, I put in a lot of effort and I really do take take it seriously. Like, I love what I do and I just love giving you a good quality info. So check out boost your biology on YouTube. And then you can search me on Instagram. Just search my name, Lucas Owen. L-U-C-A-S surname is A-O-U-N and it's Ergogenic Health.

Andy Smith 01:12:18 
Oh, thanks so much for your time today. And as I said, mentioned earlier, you've joined us from Australia. So it's very late in the day for you. You've already started your sleep protocol. You've got your blue light blockers on. So, you know, it's a wind down time for you now.

Lucas Aoun 01:12:31 
That's it, man.

Andy Smith 01:12:32 
And for the listeners thanks for listening to today's episode if you enjoyed it please subscribe leave us a 5 star review on your favorite stream platform it really does help us bring more amazing guests like Lucas to the to share their knowledge with you so thanks for listening.

Lucas Aoun 01:12:45 
Thanks, Andy.