Andy Smith 00:00 
A quick disclaimer before we begin, the PEMF podcast did not contain any medical advice, and the content provided is for informational purposes only. If you have any health concerns, please visit a healthcare professional.

Welcome back to another episode of the PEMF podcast, and today we have our first re-guest Steeve Bradet. We've got him in for part two, and one of the reasons we're doing a second version is because of the responses from the first one really. It's one of the episodes where we have so many questions about, so many people contacting us about it, contacting Steve directly, and I feel like we had so much more to discuss and so much more to dive into. You're also going to share some interesting stories about taking a bit of an undercover approach with some of these manufacturers, so that'll be interesting to talk about later on in the episode. But Steve, for anyone that didn't kind of jump on the first episode, obviously I recommend everybody listen to that one after this one. Can you just reintroduce yourself and tell everybody what it is you do, and how you got involved in this PEMF industry in the first place?

Steeve Bradet 01:08 
Well, It's really simple. What I do, I'm retired first of all, and I lived a pretty exciting life, and I was herding from the top of my head to the tip of my toes, and I'm bigging two horses, and a lady came here with a really well-known company to put a rug on my horse to show me what it could do. So they also had a human mat, and I sat on the human mat, and I felt some change. I had three bolts just in my neck, permanent whiplash basically, and I felt better. I was like, I think I feel it. So I said to the lady, I'm like, oh, I think I want to buy one of those things, and she's like, how do you want to pay? And I'm like, oh my goodness, this is not a good start. And I said, is it going to be like four easy payment or $4.99? And she goes, yeah, something like that, but the number's a little bit bigger than that. And it was quite a big number. So I said, well, explain to me what this thing does. And she said, it's PEMF. I said, are you talking about EMF as an electromagnetic field? And what does the P stand for? And she's like, what's pulsing? I'm like, oh, OK, well, I'll build my own. And she laughed at me and everything else, and she's like, no, you cannot, you know, NASA, this, NASA, that. And off I went. I just built my own. I do have a background in electronics and electrical. I also do physics as a hobby. So the biology side, I needed to take some classes because all I had was high school biology. And here we are today talking, and I teach people how to make PEMF. Now, education is mostly what I like to do as fun, right? Just teach people what makes a good math and what doesn't make a good math. Basically.

Andy Smith 02:58 
Yeah, no, good stuff. So we kind of met each other because, you know, you reached out to us, talk about the systems that we have and what we offer. And something that was quite interesting was that our copper coils are very similar to what you use in your mat. And the copper coils that you kind of settled on that you kind of see as the best ones, you know, there's been a road to get to there. And we know that there's other options on the market. So, you know, you don't necessarily have to make the coils out of copper. You can still make magnetic fields if you use different materials. But one thing that we have pop up quite a lot is these ferrite cores or ferrite rods. So what's your opinion on these other methods of creating magnetic fields? Say we're just going to compare the copper coils that you use mostly to these ferrite rods or copper or ferrite cores, I think they're also known as. What's the difference between these and why is one better than the other?

Steeve Bradet 04:03 
So when we do science, right, we try to follow a protocol and we try to be as clear and precise where our goal is what we want. So there is no such thing as bad thing and good things in science per se. We look at it as what is my goal? What am I trying to achieve? And what is the best, most efficient way to get there? I'm just gonna do a quick tangent with lights. There's no such thing as bad lights. It's just bad lighting, yes, but not bad lights. So if you put like a flood light on your car, that's useless, but if you put a flood light in your yard, that's perfect, okay? So same thing with coils. There's no such thing as a bad coil or a good coil, but if I use a PEMF coil inside an electronic device, it's gonna be horrible, because that's not what they're designed for. They're designed to create like a nice big fountain, to create a big wide area. So that way we have a nice big flood light. On the other hand, a ferrule, like when they use that compound inside, it's designed to contain the EMF. It's designed to channel it. It's designed to shunt it in such a way, shunting is just manipulation of electromagnetic field. That's just a fancy word for that. So we manipulate the field to make it do what we want. You have new metal, for example. It's also designed to protect the electronics from the radiation of the EMF, so you contain it. So this ferromagnetic material, right? The way they use it and they wrap it around. Have you ever seen those clamp that you put around a cable, like a wire, and it's designed to filter the noise? Yeah, that's because all the electromagnetic field will circle around itself. So in essence, it's like the same thing as putting a cap in front of your flashlight. You're stopping a lot of the light to come out, right? Now, if you're looking for a special effect, yes, that's perfect. But for PEMF, unfortunately, to date, and maybe 10 years, 100 years from now, we'll find a better way of doing it. But right now, as far as we know, as far as we understand science, the doughnut shape, coil, air core is the best way of doing it. That's just physics for what we wanna do, for what we wanna do with biological exposure to PEMF, right? Yeah, so I can show you a picture. Let me show you a picture. It's a simulation that, so I had to use a magnet here because my simulation does not allow me to use the ferromagnetic coil this way. But the way it's designed is very similar to the magnet, right? It's designed so the electromagnetic field that comes out of it goes back and short-circuit itself back into the material inside. So you get all these things in very low radiation. You compare that to a doughnut-shaped coil, and all of a sudden, you see the radiation on the doughnut shape is designed to make a fountain. Like, this is what we want. We want to expose as much of our cell as possible to it. So you get a fountain action versus, like I said, you put this on electronic components like your computer, this would be destructive, it would be horrible. You want something like this. And this is why we see this type of coil inside electronics all the time. So the magnetic field is contained as close as possible without too much radiation. So that's the picture right there. No, you're laying on top of this. Obviously, we want to have the fountain of youth. We want to have the fountain of wellness, right? And like you said so clearly, using this type of stuff allows you to cheat, okay? And those companies, that's what they do. Because you can focus the EMF very well, and very close to the coil, so you can reach with very little power, a really high gauze. So all of a sudden you can declare, oh, I make 500 gauze, or I make 30 gauze, or I make 50 gauze. Well, in reality, there's no penetration. There's nothing. You'd be better off having a lower gauze doughnut shaped coil than a higher gauze ferrule coil, just because of that.

Andy Smith 08:43 
Yeah, no, it's really interesting and it makes sense. So moving away from them, we go back to the donut shaped coils. What about if we don't use copper? So I know some companies have offered steel or steel wire or some maybe someone in their basement, you know, they want to build their own system. They've contacted you and they don't want to go out and buy reels of copper. So that but they have got reels of steel. Does that create the same effect? So you're going to get the same benefit.

Steeve Bradet 09:13 
Well, you have a bunch of problems here, first of all, the and copper is expensive. And this is why a lot of companies don't like to use it or use very little of it because it's expensive. And it's also a commodity that means every every day the price of it changes. So it's hard to pin down the cost of your coils because it changes all the time. Companies don't like that. Now. The magnet wire we use, that's the street name of it magnet wire as very low resistance, right? Because it's a really good conductor. I mean, it's the second best conductor after gold, basically. We could make coils out of global that would be very expensive. Okay, so there is a varnish on top of it. So it's like the insulation, you know, when you grab a wire and then you strip the end, right? And then you got your pure copper inside. A lot of people think when you buy copper wire, like magnet wire, and they see the gold color, they think it's raw copper. It's not. It's just a varnish. And the color they like to use is that color. They come in red, blue, green also, which is a little more rare, right? So one of the biggest mistake people think is that they can use steel wire and make coils. Doesn't work because the steel wire does not work for two reasons. But the first big reason is there's no insulation on it. So you're just making a bar and then you got exposed wire right there, right? So you won't be making any EMF. Second is iron and steel is not a good conductor. So you'll have really high resistance. And high resistance means low flow. And if you want to flow a lot, then it'll get really warm too. So it's very, very inefficient. I mean, yeah, like it just doesn't work. And steel is heavy too, heavier than copper. So that's a really bad, bad, bad idea.

Andy Smith 11:19 
So, yes, great, great answer. So let's stick to just copper now and donut shapes, because, you know, that's what we're saying is is is what we think is the best way to produce these magnetic fields. And another way in which we see it doing is whether it makes a difference between wrapping it around once, twice, three times like how thick do we need this copper to be? How many times do we need to wrap it before it creates a better effect? You know, is it more the better? It's, you know, how does that work? Because we we've opened a few mats. You've opened a few mats and some of these companies only use like one single strand of copper to make a loop. You know, what's the difference between that and wrapping it multiple times?

Steeve Bradet 12:02 
The idea is very simple. We'll go back to shunting again. Now, I'm going to use a few terms here, and I'll explain them as I go along. If you use only one wire, you're going to get a field being generated around that one wire, right? It's called a left-hand rule, right-hand rules. There's all kinds of stuff. But simply saying, if you just use one wire, you're going to have a field that just gets generated around that wire. Now, let's say we do a second loop. Both wires will have a field being generated around the wire itself, and then they will shunt each other. And all of a sudden, you create more. If the magnetic field is perfectly parallel to each other going in the same direction, it adds. So that means if you make one gauss plus one gauss, now you have two gauss. If they go in opposite direction of each other, they cancel. That's the only time the magnetic field interact with each other. Now, if I have two wraps, I basically double my EMF because they interact with each other. So if I go to 100 wraps, now I have 100 times that it becomes an exponential thing because they're always had to each other that way, right? Now, the companies that make very, very small coils, because the smaller the coils, the easier it is to get a high gauss output, which by the way means very little by itself. And I'm sure we'll talk about that in a second, so...

Andy Smith 13:41 
So by small, you mean just an actual small donut shape. Yeah, I mean, just exactly one brand of copper.

Steeve Bradet 13:47 
Yeah, exactly. Look at it this way. If I have a tiny little flashlight with a tiny little reflector, right, and I have the focus perfect, I can actually have quite a bright light for it. It cannot actually like a really bright spot, but it won't do much for width wise, right? Like for driving would be useless. To eliminate your yard would be also useless, right? So a small coil can make really high gauze really, really, really easily, but there'll be no penetration, there'll be no depth to it. A larger coil is harder to make high gauze because the field has more room to flow around so it doesn't have to interact with itself as much. So then we have to start adding a lot of wrap so you make it interact with one another, right? I have a little simulation here that can very well show this. There it is. You guys are gonna love this. This is amazing. It's one of my favorite simulations. So we use magnet here and there's a coil that I make. Let me zoom in. So there we go. So the green lines are your magnetic flux basically, magnetic line. And for the hardcore people out there, I know magnetic line do not exist, but we have to represent them somehow so we can visualize it. So that's how we do it. Okay. Now, if I describe 10 gauze, I just described one line. It doesn't matter how many I have. I still only have 10 gauze. I had another wrap to... Do you see how I can manipulate them? I shunned them basically. I had another wrap, all of a sudden, this is what I do to my field. I doubled the amount of flux line. So a company that has only one wrap on their coil, this is all you get. A company that makes a better coil, let's say... There's only so many wraps I can do here with my computer before the screen starts to... But all of a sudden, look at this. Just with four wraps, what happens? You still have the same amount of gauze, but all of a sudden you have much deeper penetration and a truckload more of these magnetic lines, which by the way, the way we calculate that is Weber. We're going to talk about that in my calculator in a second. Weber is the way to calculate the efficiencies of a PEMF mat, right? Because it tells you how many of those flux lines are present. Does that answer your question? Yeah.

Andy Smith 16:29 
No, it makes sense just trying to just trying to you know, because it's really good information it's you know, some people it might be a little bit too technical, so just trying to bring it down a notch in terms of the actual calls themselves. You know, it's it's all it's so important about getting the right coil when you know, when you're buying a PEMF system, you know, and that's, that's one thing that I would ask customers to talk to the manufacturer or potential manufacturer if they want to build their own system and talk to you, you know, they you want to get the right coil and you want to get things right. So go to companies, you know, one thing that I would say is that is to go to companies that are open about their coils, go to ones that have either pictures of their coils or don't mind sharing pictures of their coils, talk to you how big the coils are, how many wines they do, all these sorts of things, what materials they use, you know, with the accelerate mats, we have 12 coils and we have images of them on the website because we're, you know, super proud of them and and they're very similar course to what you use in your systems. It's one of the reasons you kind of was attracted to talk to us initially. So it you know, it's it's all about making sure you're getting the right coil and and that's another question that people ask as to why these devices are so expensive. Yeah, you mentioned it that that copper is not a cheap material and and if you're buying the right product that use copper coils and use lots of it, you know, each one of our copper coil is just under half a kilo. So, you know, we've got up to 13 of them in in in one full body system, including the controller. So that's what you want to be asking people and figuring out, you know, and working out whether you are getting the right intensity, which comes to my next question is how does a consumer know what intensity, you know, obviously, it's going to be on the box, it's going to be on the Web site as to what the intensity is, but how can someone, you know, a lot of people have approached me before and said, how can I measure it? And I went down this rabbit hole a couple of years back and I put into Google, you know, magnetic pulse measurer, something popped up on Amazon, 200 pounds that I do, you know, and I'll measure the, you know, the gas that's coming from my system. And it's not as easy as that. Let me tell you now. So if anybody kind of comes to me and says, oh, I've checked your system and it's not what you say is, you know, the first question we say to him is what have you used? And nine times out of 10, they say it's some job job from, you know, from Amazon or from eBay or something. So what do you use, Steve? What do you use in terms of measuring your, you know, the gauss and measuring your coil?

Steeve Bradet 19:21 
So first of all, I have to cheat for me to be able to measure my coils because my instruments is not quick enough to measure a micro pulse, um, 90% and I think I'm being maybe a little over dramatic, but a lot, most of the mistakes we make in, in, in science is caused by either not understanding or measuring instrument capacity, or just simply not like interpreting the measurement reading we get properly, right? So the duty cycle affects the measurement quite a bit. So, and the duty cycle is the length amount of time that the coil stays energized. Okay. So if it gets energized for half a second, let's say, which would be ridiculous. Nothing like that would ever happen. Um, but let's say it just so we can visualize it, your, your coil stays energized for half a second, but your measuring instrument needs 10 seconds to measure it, you're going to get an erroneous reading. The coil has to stay on for 10 seconds for your measuring instrument to be able to measure it and get you an accurate, um, measurement. So when you buy a record, like a gauze meter of Amazon for $300, you're nowhere near the tens of thousands of dollars that it takes for an instrument to measure accurately a micro pulse. And even those tens of thousands of dollars worth of instrument, they do have their limit too. So if you reduce the recycle to a micro micro pulse, they will also give you an erroneous reading because they're not quick enough to read it. And what do you get from that? So if I take, if I, if I require 10 seconds to take an accurate reading and my pulse is only half a second, then I may read, uh, just the tail end of it, the beginning of it or something like that. And I may get 10 gauze on my meter. Then you phone the people like, Hey, you said you're making a hundred gauze, but you're only making 10 according to my meter. Well, that's because you're reading it wrong. Right. Yeah. When I tested you guys as math, right? I got exactly what you guys claim you're getting, right? Like it was there once again, I had to cheat a little bit to make the pulse longer. So how did I do that? Well, it's the magic of the electronics, right? I just can modify stuff to keep the coil energized longer. So I was able to take an accurate reading of it. That's the way I did it. Cause I don't have a $15,000 gauze meter here either. Yeah. So for people that want to read this stuff, take it with a grain of salt. Like, yes, buy yourself a gauze meter and everything else, but know that the reading you're going to get is going to be off quite a bit sometimes, like a lot. They can be off quite a bit. Also gauze meters comes in AC DC frequency specific. So if you have a gauze meter that's designed for, let's say 60 Hertz or 600 Hertz, that's going to make a difference, right? If you have a gauze meter that's designed for AC, well, that's going to be different. Again, most, if not the majority of PEMF device or DC to start, right?

Andy Smith 22:52 
Yeah. So, I mean, really the I think the main takeaway from that is, you know, if people want to test a PEMF device, obviously don't waste your money on a couple of hundred device bit of kit to measure a micro pulse, you know, maybe look at a local test house instead that has the correct equipment. You know, I think we've we've all got all the correct equipment now when testing our mats and it was a couple of thousand for, you know, at least for for everything. So, but no, it's a good question because it's one we get asked a lot and you know, some people do go away and try and test some of the mats and coming back with the wrong results and it takes a little while to explain that situation to them. So, something else we wanted to talk about is that you we mentioned this in the first episode and that's your ZK controller. You, you know, you build PEMF mats, you help other people build PEMF mats and a lot of the time you use your ZK controller. So, can you just give us a little bit more of an explanation as to what that is and and how you kind of implement that into your mats.

Steeve Bradet 23:53 
Yeah, so the ZK, when I got onto this journey, my goal was to educate people and build a device that people can do themselves. And for the do it yourself kind of people out there with some tools and some little bit of know how. But I wanted to make it so it'd be simple and then simplifying everything all the time. Now, PEMF device comes down to just a few components, like there's three main components to it. You have your power supply, which turns the wall power into DC power. You make it go through a PWM, which is the pulse width modulator. And then you make it go through coils. And that's it really, it's just those three components. There's an infinite amount of combination that you can make that happen, right? And everybody comes up with their own little device. I use the ZK, because that PWM that they have is very cheap. And it's also very robust, like this thing is a tank. And for people to play around with the first time with electronics or, you know, it's not overwhelming because the device is built for them already. This thing can take up to eight amps according to their specs, but in reality can take a little more because with micro pulsing, again, the heat gets dissipated quite well. So I've pushed it to like nine and 10 amps and actually held. I'm actually designing a horse blanket right now for a lady. And it's running on a battery that's pumping nine and a half fan through the ZK and it's holding, I've ran it for like four days now and it held. So that thing is a tank. It also happened to make a really, really, really nice square wave, right? It's not quite as nice as the Celerate square wave, right? You guys rise and fall, the slew rate of it is faster. So I'll show you that on the calculator in a second. Yeah, slew rate is really, really important because this is how the energy gets transferred back and forth. You'll see that in a second too. So the ZK is cheap, easy to get, you burn it because when you're learning stuff, it'll always cost money. And you know, it doesn't matter how you look at it. If you've never done that before, you let it, you let the smoke out of the components. That happens a lot. It's just part of the process when you build your own things. You'll put your screwdriver on the wrong screw and you'll let the smoke out again. I mean, it's just, I said the soul of the components is going to a better place now. So, so for the people that want to do it themselves, just be ready for that. They will have that, right? Yeah, yeah. But yeah, the ZK is that it makes a beautiful square wave and square wave is king. Square wave gives you the best thing ever. And it's cheap. And it's easily obtainable pretty much anywhere in the world. So that's why I stuck with it. And plus you don't need all kinds of other components. The ZK is pretty self, self containing. So it does everything by itself and you don't need to protect it before or after so nice and simple.

Andy Smith 27:14 
Cool and you mentioned the Nextion as part of your controller and it's like a free program that you can use and within this you have certain neurological conditions listed that you can you know that you've seen benefits with so can you explain how the Nextion works as well?

Steeve Bradet 27:34 
That system is amazing. It's an HMI and it's a programmable touchscreen, basically. I made a program for it and everything else. It started out as a hobby, something that I just wanted to learn to play with. And it's also self-containing to the point where you can do the program and everything else, and it comes with a little GPIO card, and there's two output that you can use for PWM function. So that really intrigued me when I saw those specs. So I designed the program, I made it, and then I made a true bipolar waveform. The next year in the program that I made was, like at the end of the day, I'm just a technician behind a computer, right? A group of psychologists contacted me from the Netherlands and there was a whole class and they're writing their PhD on the effect of PEMF and dementia, Alzheimer, Parkinson's, and all that stuff. And they saw that I was flexible in my program and everything else, and they start demanding stuff. And I asked them a lot of questions. I learned a tremendous amount through them. So basically, the theory is like this, right? And I'm using the theory as in, like, the guest, right? Because we haven't proven that fully yet. So the term brainwave entrainment just simply means that your brain's personal frequencies will try to match the stimulus you get. Now, the brain makes two different protein that travels and they like to meet, and when they meet, it becomes something new. And it's the amygdaloid plaque. The street name is just brain plaque, right? This brain plaque is really sticky and it sticks to your neurons and basically kills them. We evolved to eliminate that by having higher frequencies in our brain that gets triggers. A healthy human being, as an average, makes it about 12 times a day and a couple times a night during the REM sleep. And this triggers the brain car wash, basically, okay? So then it cleans the plaque. Now, some people are born that instead of making it 12, they make it 6. And as you age, that number goes down. So if you're born making it less than other people, as you age, you either don't make it enough or don't make it at all. And this is where the plaque accumulates and start killing parts of your brain, basically. And if the plaque accumulates in the area where you make new memory, well, then you are a prime candidate for dementia. If it happens in another area, like in the cortex where the motor activities are created from and controlled from, then you get Parkinson. So the idea is, through brainwave entrainment, to bring the brain to stimulate the brain to make those higher frequencies to start the car wash. So the program that I made literally, according to their demand and stuff like that, were following these things and then would make the brain go up and up and up and up and down, up and up and up and down, up and up and up and down to make the brain car wash start. And they've had success. They've had success to the point where they can actually claim that it stops the destruction. So obviously, if part of your brain is destroyed and those memories are gone, they're gone. There's nothing you can do about it. But people with Parkinson, they were able to relearn certain motion and all of a sudden, they're able to do it. They were able to recognize their signature again, watched before they couldn't. All of a sudden, they could not walk and do their zipper on their jacket. All of a sudden, they could do that. They could do two motion at the same time. They're getting some really good results, right? So it's been pretty amazing. The beauty of this is, I own my Patreon, I teach how to build an action, and then I give the program for free to people there so they can upload it until the next year and it's ready to go. For anybody to do their own program, it would be insane. There's very few people that are programmers to start with. There's very few people that had the chance that I had to be contacted by those high-end researchers like I did. So I just want to spread the knowledge out there. I've built a few for some people, and they've had really good success too with it.

Andy Smith 32:18 
And it's good, you know, a great episode for our podcast because, sorry, you're a great guest for our podcast because, you know, we want to share this information with people, you know, and it's not like we're constantly saying to people, come up by our systems, by this, by that, you know, we want to get the information out there and even for yourself, you know, it's a proper passion, you know, and you've taken a lot of the hard work out, even if people want to build their own device from the ground up, you know, that's another option for people. If people don't have the finances to buy a system, then there's another option to build one and, you know, and Steve's designed the programs for you to make it even easier. So how does your approach, you know, your DIY approach, should we say, you know, compared to buying a PEMF device like ours or buying a PEMF device from another manufacturer, who, you know, who do you really want to entice into, you know, to have this approach and to build systems?

Steeve Bradet 33:14 
I get this question asked a lot, people have come to me and they say, do you think I can build it? Well, first of all, I don't know you, so I don't know, right? But I'm going to tell you guys right now, I've had people that are 70 plus years old that never touch electronics that decided we're going to do this, okay? And I've had engineers that failed at it. So for people to be able to do this, you first of all need a desire, like you need to be somebody that when you vacuum cleaner brakes, you're the kind of person that takes it apart, looks at it, see the part that's broken, curse of the engineers that did that that way because this is stupid. They think they're 3D printer, they make a new one and they put it in, right? If you're that kind of person, yeah, you'll have no problem building on that. If you're the kind of person that takes failure and obstacle as just a challenge, that's also something you can do. Because this will be challenging. You're going to make a coil and then it's going to explode on you, like the coil is going to unwind itself and you cannot save it. And now you just wasted a lot of money, right? So there's a lot of stuff happening that when you build your own things, you have like, not everybody likes to build their own car, but there is people out there that like to build their own car. They like to remaster them and everything else, right? Same thing with that. If it's going to take you a while, too, people say, how long is it going to take me to do that? Well, it's a journey, first of all. You have to order the parts, you're going to have to make sure you order the right parts. You're going to get them, you have to build it. So you're looking at it can take you anywhere from two weeks to two months. And that's very conservative, right? I've had people that have been working on it for a year. So it's how much energy and time do you want to put into the project, right? So is it rewarding? Hell yeah. I mean, like, there's nothing better than driving down the main street of your town with the car that you did yourself, right? I mean, that's great. Are you going to save money? Probably you will if you're willing to basically cut some corners. You may not get the fanciest box, you may not get the nicest match, you may not, you know what I mean? Well, it will work. Yes, it will. But it'll look a little more like a Frankenstein system, which a lot of people are fine with, too, because they did it themselves and it works. Right. There's a lot of stuff that can go wrong. You have to put your coils the right way. The way I designed it, I designed it so people cannot get hurt because there's no capacitors involved. There's no there's all voltage. The parts that I tell them to buy or build already. So that was just a it's kind of a plug and play system in a way. But there's a little knowledge, a little know how, willing to learn. And yes, you can. It's going to look funny when you're done, probably because making things look good is very hard and very expensive. Yeah, and that you would know. Yeah.

Andy Smith 36:31 
You know, and I mentioned it in our first one, but, you know, capacitors are no joke. And, you know, I genuinely nearly killed myself using holding a capacitor from a high intensity device, which, you know, nearly blasted me across the room. So, you know, if you are considering making a PEMF map, make sure Steve is the person, you know, the first point of call for you to, you know, you've made all the mistakes. There's no point in, you know, there's no point in someone starting this project and making the same mistake. So, you know, best to reach out to you and save them some, you know, save them some money in the long term.

Steeve Bradet 37:04 
Yeah, just a side note for the people listening that want to build their own mat, please follow my instruction. I make it sound like it's very simple. I don't get into the mathematics that went behind this. I don't go behind the Holmes law, just the Holmes law alone, which is just high school level stuff. How to balance that alone is really, really, really, really tricky. People says, well, if you make your mat with 15 coils, or you make my mat with smaller coils, and I'm going to put 200, and it's going to be better. I'm not saying you cannot do that, but there's a lot of calculation that has to be taken into account for that. So don't try and reinvent it, just keep it simple, follow my instruction.

Andy Smith 37:52 
So, yeah, you mentioned about people making their own systems and, you know, technically they're going to be perfect and have right coils and what sort of thing, but they might look ugly. It might be a bit more, you know, a bit more Frankenstein. What's the difference between because, you know, we're seeing the market quite flooded now, these multi-therapy mats, these ones that are made in China. And, you know, we've already touched on the ferrite rods and coils, which we know that they use. They, you know, slap two or three, sometimes four coils in there. So they're not getting good coverage, all these sorts of things. But, you know, what's the what's the biggest takeaway from you in terms of how does your mat compare to these?

Steeve Bradet 38:28 
like there is no comparison, okay. It's crazy because all those China mats, they basically are designed to look good and talk about all kinds of stuff on it. When it comes down to actual delivery of anything, right, like do they make PEMF? Yes, they do, but if you want to compare them with a light system, for example, you have a high-end BWM BMW, I'm having a dyslexic moment, that have a really nice lighting system on the front end of their car, and then you have a Russian Lata made from 1972 lighting system. Are they both gonna allow you to drive in the dark on the street? Yes. Which one you want to be in? Well, you want to be in the BMW because you're gonna see, wow, right, this is a good lighting system. So, the Celerate has that, like they have a good lighting system, right, that's well-designed. Well, the China one have the 1972 Russian Lata lighting system, right? So, yes, they work, but man alive, like seriously, I think we can do better than that today, you know? So, that's the problem with the China stuff. It's mass produced, excuse me, and the PEMF they make is not the best by any stretch of imagination, plus it's not overlay. So, that creates a big problem in the industry because all the Sun, people that use your mat or build their own mat from me, and they're like telling the world they're getting great results, and then the people go on Amazon, they're like, well, I'm not gonna pay five, six thousand dollar for a mat, I cannot make my own. I talked to Steve, see if he can make me one, but he's busy right now. Yeah. So, he's busy riding horses, and so they go on Amazon, and they buy a thousand dollar, a fifteen hundred dollar mat, right? And then they sit on it, and they're getting marginal if no results at all, and they're like, well, this stuff doesn't work. Well, you're not being fair, you're not actually trying to do that. So, that's the dark side of those cheap knockoff system, is that they give the industry a bad reputation.

Andy Smith 41:07 
And you, you told me before this podcast episode, so we haven't, we haven't discussed this yet, or I don't know what you're going to say here, but you said that you took a bit of a, a bit of a mystery shop to some of these guys. So you, you know, you reached out to them directly. So these are the manufacturers directly. So not the brands that are representing them, but some of the, you know, the actual factories themselves in China and ask them some questions. So what did you find out? What, what, what was, you know, what was your experience with this? Because, you know, just, just to add to that, you know, I also contacted these guys originally, you know, even when we were developing our systems, I wanted to look at other devices and how they worked and all that sort of thing. And, and I asked them what the intensity was of the PEMF and none of them could answer the question and they actually started asking us how to measure PEMFs. And I'm thinking, you guys, you know, you're making a system. It's, it's been in the market now for a number of years and you're asking me how to measure the intensity, which, you know, I was surprised at. So, you know, what was your experience with this?

Steeve Bradet 42:15 
My experience was comical and what you just said there, I'm not the kind of guy that says, oh yeah, well watch my story. Exactly what you said but even worse because these companies, I contacted three different companies and one of them in particular found out who I was. They actually googled me up and they found my YouTube channels and everything and then the conversation turned into please, please, please educate us, teach us and I was like, no, no, no, no, not here for this. I'd like to know about how you guys build your math and everything else, right? Because I have quite a few here, thanks to you guys, I acquired quite a few which I've been going through and fixing and anyway, story for another day. So I'm going to share with you some pictures. You're going to see a folder right now. So right here, you're seeing a typical Chinese mat. This is one of the best, the better one out there, right? So with them, you can specify basically how many coils you want and what you want the coils to look like. They will build you whatever you want as long as you know what you want.

Andy Smith 43:48 
OK, because these look like quite a good example of a court. Well, better, better example of a coil. I think these are more that they look copper to me and it looks like they're spreading the coil instead of kind of wrapping it like we do. And in more of a donut shape. Yeah, as an example of, you know, one of those manufacturers looks like one of the better ones.

Steeve Bradet 44:12 
It is. It's probably one of the top one that I've came across, where they actually have copper. And I ran a simulation because I really wanted these coils to be better than the coils that you and me make, right? And I was like, okay, I finally have one, because I have no way of making coils like this at home. Like, you need a machine to make this. And I was like, for sure, this is going to be better. In my head, I was like, this is going to be better. The results were astonishingly bad. Like, it was crazy. It's like, okay, we're going back to the light analogy. For the same amount of watt, let's say we're going to go with 100 gauss just to make a number round, right? 100 watt, 100 gauss. Look at this style of coil as a reflector. And then the style of coil we make, that's all nicely wrapped tight around in circle as a different type of reflector. Our reflector makes a beautiful fountain that goes around. While these guys, the only fountain action happens in the center of it, and the further out you go from the center, it creates a short circuit for the EMF to flow it into itself. So, they don't have a big fountain. So, their floodlight is like there's a piece of cloth in front of it, basically. So, they don't have a nice big bright light to them, even though they still make 80 gauss too. You can make them make 80 gauss, but it's not a nice fountain like I showed before. So, this is one of the top one. They put a very small power supply to it, and then I did get one here. I took one apart, and it was making 20 gauss per coil just on the inside, right? The further out you went, you made no gauss at all. So, you got all this copper, but it's not optimized, so it doesn't shunt itself back into itself, basically. So, instead of pushing itself, it just goes flat. And so, it's got no penetration whatsoever. Plus, the coils, there's not enough, and they're too far apart. But, let's go to a better picture now, and let's look at this one, for example. So, they just finished building this company, this mat, right? Mass-produce it, very cheap controller. It did have a square wave, and I think this one had six coils too. And then, you get

Andy Smith 47:08 
Nice.

Steeve Bradet 47:18 
Now, now I'm going to stop it right there. Let's rewind it a little bit. I want to show something right here. Okay. You saw the size of those coils because they're making such a low amount of gauze, the field doesn't shunt itself and it goes nowhere. The comparison to that is you want a big fountain in front of your house and you have a two meter wide diameter pipe with only just a little bit of pressure. So the water comes up over the edge and flows and falls back down. You don't have a fountain. You just got something that overflows. That's it. That's what those coils do. They don't have a fountain. The coil you make and I make, they have the right dimension, the right amount of pressure and they go up and now you have a nice, beautiful fountain of water that gushes up and then comes back down. So that's the biggest problem with these coils. So now we go here. They explained to me, I don't know if you recognize this. We see this color quite a few times on Amazon. This is a well-known company. So they make these, I mean, they make those. I've seen how they make those. So they're all the same thing at the core. I mean, this is a pretty high end company in France that does a high end massage and health spas and everything else. Their mat is made just like everybody else. They just rebrand it over there, right? Like, look at this. For people that shop on Amazon, just see this. This person commented on that person, Ali, this is on Ali Baba, I believe. This is a very good product. I buy it from the UK for many times and I sell it on Amazon. This is what you're getting people. You're getting mass production of cheap components that people buy and become a reseller of it on Amazon, right? There's another example of another one. You're getting mass production of cheap components that people buy and become.

Andy Smith 49:33 
I mean, the attractive thing about these systems is the margin. You know, when we were looking to develop our our system, I went into it completely naive because I was looking at these other comparisons and, you know, my build, my build. But I put the project together and I said that we want to build our entire system for 100 pounds, you know, 150 dollars. And, you know, so that we can compete with these guys. When we had, I think it was about, you know, every single meeting, the cost went up. When we finally had a meeting, they said, we can't even look at making these under 500 pounds, you know, under 700 dollars, whatever that is. And I thought to myself, well, we can't we can't compete with these with these other brands then. You know, this is a dead this is a dead project. And then I thought to myself, why am I trying to compete with these guys? You know, you know, the copper alone is is more than that. Yep. So, yeah, yeah. The the the CELLER8 project, CELLER8 product, full body system of that is retailing around just under three thousand dollars at the moment, which is not where I wanted it to be. But, you know, the cost went way in excess of what we ever wanted it to, you know, ever wanted to make it for. So and then now our standpoint is completely different. You know, we've seen how amazing the product is and we don't want to compete with these companies anymore. You know, we want to be seen as the as the brand that works and and is, you know, is is is a good product does does all it says. And that's the same sort of thing that you're seeing with with, you know, with your with your product, what I'm going to do actually quickly is just grab one of the coils, which I've got behind me. Yeah, there we go. So, you know, we're talking we're talking about, you know, other people's coils and that sort of thing. And I thought, you know, it would be it would be prudent for us to both, you know, show us show us yours. I'll show you mine kind of type of thing. And, you know, this is this is what we're kind of talking about. You know, that's the thickness of our coils. That's the size of them, you know, size of my hand. And, you know, that's and we're very open about what we put on our systems. And you also, you know, same sort of thing is is you want to get the right one, which produces the best best results.

Steeve Bradet 51:55 
Correct. And this is what, in the first place, made me come in touch with you guys was your honesty about everything, right? I was blown away by how honest you guys were. And also your design. I mean, a lot of my Patreon asked me if A, I helped you guys design your mat or B, you copy my design. And I was laughing and I was like, no, I didn't even know that you guys existed, right? And my Patreon put me onto you guys. And then I look at the date and I was like, guys, if anybody copied anybody, it's me that copied them because they came with their system before me, right? So I said like, kudos to them, right? This is an example of red versus gold, right? Yeah. So we talked about that, that color has to go, the copper is inside of that. So I can make, I make all kinds and I tested all kinds and I see yours are about the same size as mine. Remember I was telling you guys when it explodes and then you get a mess when you build them, this is what happened. You cannot save this, but this is done. Like you'll never work. So a lot of the Chinese company, believe it or not, they use aluminum because aluminum is cheap and it does that. Now that creates another problem with aluminum, the eddy current and yeah, I don't want to get it deep into physics right now, but aluminum is a terrible material to use to make a PEMF coil. Okay. It's, it's, does it work? Yeah. But once again, we're going with a light. I mean, why would you want to use that? Like, why do you want to run around with a candle? Candle makes light. Yes. But we have LEDs now. It's just, it's just, yeah. Yeah. The cost. I mean, this stuff is expensive. I mean, like it's crazy expensive.

Andy Smith 53:50 
Just out of curiosity, you don't have any images of the ferrite option as well, do you, that we can share with our audience?

Steeve Bradet 53:59 
Um, I did open one up before our meeting started and I was going to show it to you, but for the life of me, I cannot find it right now. So right here, let me mute this so you don't hear me speaking over right here. We have a, the flat coil versus the donut shape coil that we build. Right. Um, the biggest difference, like I told you is, and all things are made equal in these twos, right? Like they both have the same amount of wire. They both have the same amount of amp and everything else. Um, the, the difference is the way this shunts itself pushes the fountain up like that while this one doesn't, it just, it doesn't promote the fountain action. So that is one of the biggest difference between the way you and me make coil versus the rest of the world. Um, I asked those Chinese.

Andy Smith 54:58 
And you typically see, you normally see those calls, the calls where they spread out, you typically see them in low intensity systems. So not always the worst systems, not always bad systems, but they tend to be quite low intensity and that would make sense as to what you're showing here.

Steeve Bradet 55:17 
Yeah, if you put your gauze meter right close to the coil right there, and then you do the same thing over here, you probably would read, if everything was equal, you probably read the same amount of gauze. Once again, gauze doesn't express a lot. So they could both make the same amount of gauze, right? But one is built in such a way that it promotes that fountain action that we require, right? So yeah, I don't know where that picture is. Do you want to see just a picture of it? It's literally just a piece of rusted metal with some impurity in it, right? It's a very terrible conductor of electricity, and they just wrap their wire around it, right? And the EMF just flows through itself, and it doesn't go anywhere. It's probably of all the coils you can dream of, that's probably the absolute worst you can get. Like...

Andy Smith 56:20 
Yeah. And why are they using, why is it just a cheaper way to produce a magnetic field, do you think?

Steeve Bradet 56:29 
Yeah, because once again, if I put my gauss meter right on it, I'll be able to read 60 gauze, and then they can go and boast, oh, we make 60 gauze, and we have six coils and make 60 gauze. Yeah. But there's no fountain action. Like it's just 60 gauze right there. It's designed to contain itself. So it's a terrible, terrible, terrible design. It's just they don't know what they're doing or their con artist. It's one of the two.

Andy Smith 56:59 
So you've mentioned actually to us in an off-air conversation that you're working on some kind of calculator, you know, you're because what would be quite cool is turning into the Robin Hood of the PEMF world in terms of having something that you can tangibly put two products together and show which one's good and which one's bad. So like a comparison tool. But so, yeah, can you give us a bit of an intro into that and what that is and when you think you can get that up and running? Yeah, so.

Steeve Bradet 57:29 
So my idea was I got the calculator running, which is kind of a simulator in a way, right? And I wanted to extrapolate that to make a three-dimensional physical representation of the EMF. And what started out as a small project turned out to be, okay, no word of a lie, I started out making 20,000 and then Excel spreadsheet, 20,000 columns of data so I could represent it in 3D. And it was nowhere near what I needed. I need over two million points. So I don't have the computing power to finish this project yet, but it's coming. But in the meantime, I can show you the most amazing thing ever. So, what you're seeing here is, okay, Weber is the amount of flux line present in a specific area, okay? And typically Weber is described in Tesla. But as we know, Tesla is a really big number and they like to use all these acronyms like UT, MT, whatever, MT in front of them. And I don't like that because it confuses people. So, I express mine in gauze so that way the numbers are something we can relate to, okay? So and then here, this Faraday's law is electromagnetic induction, right? It's expressed in volts, but it's not, okay, it's just science is terrible at naming stuff, okay? Like scientific people, they lack imagination or something, I don't know what it is. And they name things without thinking about it, right? So, it's volt energy, this is its power, it's all this, right? So, we'll leave it as that for right now. I don't want people to think that they got 4,500 volts being flown through them when they sit on your mat, they're not. It's volt energy, so this is an equivalence, okay? And if you express this over the human size body and over the thickness of a human body, this is a number right here you get. Once again, those numbers are there to compare apple to apple, right? So, Omni, let's just take a typical Chinese mat, okay? They make 20 gauze per coil, their coil diameter I think is like 150 millimeter. They have two rows and they got three coils per row. Now, the slew rate right here is off fast, the coil gets energized on and off, okay? So, I give them the accelerate slew rate, by the way, which is to date one of the best in the world I've came across. So, congratulations. Good, thanks.

Andy Smith 01:00:31 
Yeah, we've got some good technicians there.

Steeve Bradet 01:00:34 
Very, very, very, very quick, okay? So let's, let's actually, let's give them the ZK, okay? So now the sign you're getting this kind of Weber, you're getting this kind of energy being transferred, and then you're getting overall the rating of this mat would be 0.22, okay? So let's go right here, 0.22, okay? We'll, we'll make that the Chinese mat. Okay, now let's go to the seller rate. I think you guys make, am I correct 85 gods?

Andy Smith 01:01:11 
50 per coil in the mat, but it's 100 in the controller, but yeah, 50 per coil in the air.

Steeve Bradet 01:01:18 
So 50, your diameter is about 110, I'm guessing right now.

Andy Smith 01:01:23 
I think so. Without measuring it, yeah. I think that's about right.

Steeve Bradet 01:01:28 
Okay, and you have three rows of four.

Andy Smith 01:01:33 
Four rides of three, other way around.

Steeve Bradet 01:01:35 
I still end up with 12 at the end, so it's okay. Okay, equal will give you an amazing slew rate, right? And all of a sudden, right, look at the Weber, 5.7, 3,500 volts, and then 0.65 overall. I mean, this is astonishing. This is out of this world, right? People say, oh, it's a different 0.22 and 0.65. Okay, look at it this way, right? I know the number seems close, but to go from 0.22 to 0.44, right? People think, oh, it's just twice as much. It's not. It's an exponential thing, right? So this is like going 22 kilometers an hour, and this is like going 650 kilometers an hour. I guess this is insane, okay? Don't let the numbers, it's a little like, yeah, anyway. So this is where it's at. This is how now we can compare. Let's say, I'm going to give you another example, the SOTA, which is really, really high power, right? It makes 5,000 gauss at the applicator, right? And I think it was 45 millimeter in diameter, and then it's 1N1. And because they use a capacitor, right, the slew rate is really slow all of a sudden. The SOTA, the slew rate is right here. Now, look at this with the SOTA. Yeah.

Andy Smith 01:03:14 
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but with the salt post, because I've got some experience of that one, it's, it's one that pulse is like once a minute or something, isn't it? So it's, yeah, I mean, it's one of the reasons we- It takes, it takes a long time to recharge the capacitor. We never took that device on was just because of the application, because, you know, for to get some results and for an application of that thing, it's like an hour sitting there holding it on a certain part of the body. So it just didn't really make sense to fitting that into someone's daily life. Um, but yeah, go on. As you were saying, in terms of the slew rate and everything.

Steeve Bradet 01:03:48 
Yeah, so now once again, these high gauze systems are well known to be really good to do decalcification on the joints for arthritic people, right? They do really good and really quickly. The problem with them is that you cannot use it to do brainwave entrainment. You cannot use it to heal, let's say you have a twisted ankle or broken ribs. It's the last device you'd want to use or something like that because it won't help you because you'll make your muscle twitch and it'll hurt you. So the overall health of the human body needs to be treated from the toes to the tip of your head so every system inside of you can get recalibrated and get the benefit of it, right? So for an overall performance, it's very, very, very bad, right? And that's the problem with it, right? You get another company that does this and their coil, I think, I think is around 35 and they have two rows of three and they have, let's give them a really good slew rate of the ZK, right? This company is a multi-level marketing company that's probably one of the most known in the world. They make blanket for horses and mat for people, right? And their mat costs $8,000 to $12,000 US. Look what you get. Like you're getting junk, right? Yeah. Now, let's go back to your typical Chinese mat that you get from Amazon. You get 20 gauze. The problem with this system is that, is this, right? Let's give them a bigger coil a little bit. This is what you get out of a typical bottom of the run Chinese mass produce mat. You're getting 0.9, right? Remember, like you guys were getting 0.65, right? The best of the best that I was able to put my hand on from China was 0.22. This is what you get from Amazon, 0.09. This is the best you can hope for, right? So, does it work? Yes, you can still see in that dark alley with that 1972 ladder, but why? Why running around with a candle, we can have an LED, right? I mean, it's just, it's terrible. So, this calculator allows me to get a sense for comparing stuff and design around there. It's a good simulator, right? I mean, the mat that I design, the only reason why it scores a little bit higher than yours is simply because I have three extra coils in it, right? Because I make the mine with 15. So, it just happened the mat was working beautifully that way. Yeah, I want to finish with one thing that you guys do that nobody else in the world does. Yeah, I want to share my screen again. Okay, now, this is everybody that in the world, this is the way they lay their coil, right? The way I lay my 15 coil mat, the way you lay your 12 coil mat, you guys, you do the same thing as I do, you place another coil in the center between the coils like that, by the way you shun them, right? Okay, do you see what happened here when I do that? Okay, this is, look at the laser beam you create from the center right there, right? Okay, so, you basically, you know those light bars, aftermarket light bars, that they have the well-focused beam in the center and then the flood light on the side, so you get the best of both worlds, something that is very expensive to make, something that's very, it's really useful, right? And everybody, that's what they want. Why don't everybody build their map that way? The row of coil in the center is being guard railed by the row of coils on the outside. So the coils in the center becomes a focus beam which increase the penetration through the body, right? And the coils on the outside, the inside of those coils are also guarded, so you get that. So now all of a sudden you have a fountain of water. Imagine this, okay? You walk into your yard and you get greeted by this beautiful fountain that's got this beautiful swirl of water and it comes up like that and one in the center that goes above and rolls around too. That's the match you guys created. You created the most amazing, beautiful fountain for the body. Like, as far as I'm concerned, you guys nailed it. Like, there's no other way around it, you know?

Andy Smith 01:09:19 
So yeah, it's great feedback from you actually, Steve, and it's a testament as to what we set out to achieve and why the cost of our system just went through the roof. What we were trying to compare ourselves to originally and trying to make a system under £100 is just, I'll laugh at it now, looking at the cost of our mat now, but it's the results we wanted. A lot of people come to us and say, how do you compare these systems? So it'd be really good when this calculator's tweaked and finished and we can get that out there into people's hands and we can compare these different systems. Because at the moment, people just see gauss or intensity as a way of differentiating between a system when really there's so many facets that are needed. We're looking at the material, the coils, how many coils, how these coils are set up and even down to the placement of the coils and what we're putting into it, all these different things come into creating a nice, clean and good magnetic field. So yeah, it's all really interesting and it's been another real education on this episode and lo and behold, we'll probably have part three out at some point because there'll be more things we want to cover. Just wrapping this up, Steve, if people want to know more, if they want to get in touch with you, you've mentioned your Patreon site and actually since our last podcast, I'm now one of your customers. So I'm one of your Patreons on there now too, so keeping up to date with everything. How can people find you and where can they sign up?

Steeve Bradet 01:11:00 
If you go to the PEMF into the Patreon platform and then you just search PEMF with Steve, you'll find me right away. Same thing on YouTube. You can find my YouTube channel just by going PEMF with Steve and it'll come up. You can see the progression when I started making videos and now, yeah, it's been quite a blast. I answered all my questions and the Patreon is more of a filter. I used to do it for free but the keyboard warriors became so noisy that and then I treat everybody the same. It doesn't matter if they give me 250 a month which is the minimum you can have on Patreon or $50 a month. I treat everybody the same. It's just a filter to keep the riff-raff out of there. And it works. It really works. There's no riff-raff in there. Everybody's nice.

Andy Smith 01:11:52 
so it's good. Yeah, no, great. And thanks. So, yeah, reach out to Steve. If you want to put messages at the end of this podcast, you know, we'll get back to you and or we'll put you in touch with Steve directly. So any questions, I know there was a lot of questions from the last one. Please make sure you put them on there. We'll do our best to get back to you. And as always, leave us a five star review so we can keep getting guests back like Steve. Thanks again for listening to another episode of the PEMF podcast and we hope to see you again next week.