Andy Smith 00:00 
A quick disclaimer before we begin, the PEMF podcast does not contain any medical advice and the content provided is for informational purposes only. If you have any health concerns, please visit a healthcare professional.

Welcome back to the PEMF podcast. Today's episode is all about ATP, which you've probably heard mentioned a lot in the health and wellness space recently, especially when people are talking about energy recovery and performance. But what actually is ATP? And more importantly, how does PEMF interact with it? In this episode, we're going to be breaking down that and really simple way. We'll cover what ATP actually is, why it matters, look at some of the key studies around PEMF and energy production and explain what the research really shows.

Joshua Roberts 00:47 
And yeah, we'll look at how different parameters of PEMF actually affect the body and some practical takeaways that you can use when actually applying PEMF to help with things like energy production and recovery. So if you've never heard about ATP or you've never heard about PEMF, this will be a full kind of comprehensive look at the both. And obviously how PEMF can influence ATP as well. But before we start, what actually is ATP? It's kind of a bit of a buzzword at the moment in wellness. You go to a lot of shows and you kind of see ATP everywhere, but what actually is it?

Andy Smith 01:18 
Yeah, ATP actually stands for adrenaline triphosphate. It's essentially the body's main energy currency. Every single process in your body that requires energy relies on ATP, whether that's muscle contraction, brain activity, cellular repair, or simply maintaining normal cell function. Without ATP, cells wouldn't be able to function at all. A simple way to think about this is that ATP is the spendable form of energy in the body. We get energy from food, but that energy isn't immediately usable. Instead, the body converts it into ATP inside the mitochondria. This is where the nutrients are turned into usable energy that the body can actually work with. Once ATP is used, it gets broken down into ADP. And then the body has to recycle it back to ATP again to keep that energy cycle going. This process is happening constantly every second of the day across billions of cells. So when ATP is spoken about in the health and wellness space, what people are really referring to is how efficiently the body is producing and using energy at a cellular level. And that matters because the more efficiently your cells can produce ATP, the better they can perform, recover, and maintain normal function.

Joshua Roberts 02:34 
Yeah, exactly. ATP is kind of responsible. Yeah. ATP is kind of responsible for almost kind of everything in the body almost. But for anyone who is new to PEMF, what does PEMF stand for? And what is it just in under 30 seconds?

Andy Smith 02:49 
Yes, PEMF therapy my favorite subject. PEMF therapy stands for post-electromagnetic field therapy. It's a non-invasive, drug-free and natural treatment that uses post-electromagnetic fields to stimulate the body's natural healing processes to create the ultimate environment in the body to heal.

Joshua Roberts 03:06 
Yeah, perfect. So now let's look at kind of some of the studies and there is a study that we have actually referenced quite a few times when it comes to ATP and it's normally I think kind of the go-to one for a lot of people when it comes to PEMF. What is that study and kind of what does it show?

Andy Smith 03:22 
Yeah, we've spoken about this study before on the podcast and what this study looked at is how PM affects part of the system in the cells that's responsible for handling energy. What they focused on was the enzyme that plays a key role in how ATP is used and managed inside the cell. What they found was that they applied a 60 Hertz magnetic field at three Gauss and five Gauss. The activity of the enzyme increased. So in simple terms, the magnetic field doesn't create ATP directly, but it did seem to make part of the energy system more active and that's the key takeaway here. It suggests that PEMF may help the body use or process energy more efficiently rather than just increasing energy out of nowhere.

Joshua Roberts 04:08 
Yeah exactly and I feel like most of the time when people kind of talk about ATP when it comes to PEMF it's more in it's just going to give you a massive boost out of nowhere and that's not necessarily the case as that study kind of showed it's more about helping parts of the process become more efficient which can obviously help then increase the overall amount of ATP. But then looking more kind of directly at kind of the mitochondria and energy production is there any kind of more direct studies when it comes to PEMF.

Andy Smith 04:36 
Yes, and this is where things start to get a bit more relevant when we're talking about ATP specifically. This study looked at how PEMF affects energy production inside cells, specifically in the cells that line blood vessels, which are really important for things like circulation and healing. In terms of how PEMF was applied, the cells were exposed to around 40 gauss at a frequency of 80 hertz for 30 minutes a day over the period of just two days. What they found was that PEMF actually changed the way the cells produce energy. Normally, cells rely more on something called oxidative phosphorylation, which is a more efficient but slightly slower way of producing energy. But after PEMF exposure, the cells shifted more towards glycolysis, which is a faster way of generating ATP. Now, even though glycolysis is less efficient overall, it produces energy much more quickly, and this is the same pathway the body tends to during things like healing, growth, and repair. They also found changes in the mitochondria themselves, which are the parts of the cells responsible for producing energy. The mitochondria became more dynamic, and overall, the cells showed increased metabolic activity and function. So again, this study doesn't directly show that PEMF increases ATP levels, but it does show that PEMF can influence how cells produce and use energy, and that's really what ATP is all about.

Joshua Roberts 06:02 
Yeah, exactly. And once again, that study's kind of more showing that it helps optimize and kind of make the whole energy production process more efficient rather than, as we say, just kind of dumping in more ATP or adding ATP as such. But kind of reeling it back, we kind of looked more at kind of energy production as a whole for that one. But then maybe going more back to the first study and looking at kind of ATP production more directly, is there any more kind of direct research between PEMF and ATP?

Andy Smith 06:31 
Yes, and this is where things get a bit more interesting when we're talking about ATP more directly. This study looked specifically at mitochondria, which are the parts of the cell where ATP is actually made. So rather than just looking at the general cell activity, this gets much closer to the actual process of producing energy. In terms of how PEMF was applied, they used a signal with a magnetic field strength of around 770 Gauss. The exposure time was relatively short as well, it was about 5 to 10 minutes depending on the setup. So what they found in this study was that the PEMF increased something called mitochondrial respiration that specifically linked to ATP synthesis. In simple terms, it appeared to stimulate the part of the mitochondrial function that is involved in actually producing usable energy. Interestingly, it didn't just increase all mitochondria activity across the board, it mainly affected the part tied to ATP production rather than the total capacity of the system. And that's quite important because it suggests that a more targeted effect on energy production than rather just a general increase in cell activity. So again, this study doesn't specifically show that PEMF increases ATP levels in the human body. But what it does give, it gives us a lot more detail closer to that link. It suggests that PEMF may support the processes inside the mitochondria that are responsible for producing ATP.

Joshua Roberts 08:02 
Yeah, exactly. And once again, it is just all about kind of really optimizing and making that whole energy production cycle kind of more efficient rather than, as we say, kind of adding ATP in. But now kind of we know PEMF can make these kind of system more efficient. What does this actually kind of mean in the real world for things like recovery, for example?

Andy Smith 08:24 
So when you bring all of this into the real world, it can really help explain why PEMF is often used for recovery and performance and overall energy. Because ATP is what fuels everything from muscle contraction to repair and to daily function. So if PEMF therapy is influencing the systems behind ATP production, like enzymes and mitochondria, it just makes sense that this can show up as better recovery after training, reduced fatigue, and more consistent energy levels throughout the day. Research has also suggested that PEMF supports circulation and oxygen delivery, which are both essential for efficient energy production. So it's not about giving you the energy instantly, but more about helping your body work more efficiently at a cellular level, which can then translate into improved recovery, performance, and resilience over time.

Joshua Roberts 09:15 
Yeah, exactly. And then when you start kind of including PEMF's ability to reduce inflammation, increase oxygenation, circulation, on top of its ability to help the kind of ATP production as well, you kind of see why PEMF is so widely used for things like healing, recovery, and even improving performance as well. But then kind of then when we look at applying PEMF now for energy production in a more practical terms, there is one more study that we haven't thrown in, which kind of looks at applying different intensities for energy production. What did this kind of study show?

Andy Smith 09:50 
Yeah, and this is a really important study because it highlights that not all PEMF works in the same way, especially when you start increasing the intensity. In this study, they used very high intensity PEMF with a magnetic field strength of around 67,000 gauss. What they found was that at this level of intensity caused cells to release ATP out of the cell almost immediately after treatment. And the easiest way to understand this is that ATP is meant to stay inside the cell so that it can be used as energy. But here it was actually leaking out into the surrounding environment. Now that's not necessarily a good or a bad thing on its own. It just depends on the goal. In medical settings, this kind of effect can be useful. For example, when you want to trigger certain cellular responses or increase permeability. But when we're talking about energy production, it's not really what we're aiming for because instead of the cell using that energy, it's actually losing it. So instead of helping the cell produce to use energy more efficiently, this is more like the cell becoming temporarily disrupted, allowing things like ATP to escape. And that's the key difference. Lower and moderate intensity PEMF tends to support how the cell produces and uses energy. Whereas very high intensities like this can start to change the cell membrane itself, leaving, sorry, leading to energy leaving the cell rather than being used. So before we even get into what the settings to use, this study really highlights why intensity matters depending on what you're trying to achieve.

Joshua Roberts 11:28 
Yeah, exactly. And that's not to say medium to low intensity can't open up the cell channels. It has kind of been shown to do that in studies. It just kind of hints more that higher intensities can do it much more and open up the cells a lot more than the medium to low intensity ones would. And this kind of also explains why sometimes people report feeling almost a bit flu like after having a high intensity session, mainly when they'll see they've gone for too long a session at too high intensity. And obviously that's not something that's ever really reported when you do the low to medium kind of sessions.

Andy Smith 12:00 
Yeah exactly and that's a really important point to clarify. Lower and medium intensity PEMF can absolutely influence cell membranes and ion channels but they tend to do it in a more controlled subtle way, supporting normal cellular function rather than overwhelming actually should we say. When you go up to very high intensities you're creating a much stronger effect on the cell membrane which can increase permeability more significantly and ATP is actually relatively large molecule compared to things like ions. So if ATP is leaving the cell it suggests a fairly significant change in membrane permeability. Smaller molecules like certain waste products or ions can move even more easily which is why higher intensity treatments can sometimes feel more intense to the body. That flu like feeling some people report can be linked to this increased cellular activity and movement of substances in and out of the cell. It's not necessarily harmful but it does suggest a much stronger physiological response.

Joshua Roberts 13:04 
So bearing that in mind then, what intensities should people kind of be using if they're trying to increase ATP or energy production?

Andy Smith 13:13 
So when it comes to ATP and energy production, you're generally looking at a lower to medium intensity PEMF. Most of the research around cellular function, mitochondria and energy tends to sit around roughly the range of about 10 to 100 gauss. And the reason for that is this range seems to support how the cell functions. Things like mitochondrial activity, enzyme function and overall energy processes without pushing the cell into more of a disruptive state which we were just talking about. So that's why for things like daily use, recovery and general energy, most people lean towards that lower to medium intensity range because it aligns much more closely with what we see in the research around ATP and cellular energy.

Joshua Roberts 13:59 
yeah exactly and kind of now looking at the other kind of most spoken about specification which is frequency what kind of frequencies would we be looking at for kind of ATP and energy

Andy Smith 14:10 
production. Frequency is a really interesting one because unlike intensity there isn't one exact number that's best for ATP or energy production. Most of the research tends to sit in the lower frequency ranges typically anywhere from around 1 to 100 hertz and that's where we see the effects linked to cellular activity, circulation and overall energy processes. But one of the key takeaways to to understand here is that the reason the best thing is not to stick to one frequency. We see a lot of research over time talking about using multiple frequencies as a best treatment option. So rather than sticking to one frequency where your body can almost get accustomed to it, the best thing to do is to reply at the frequencies at different frequencies within that range of 1 to 100. But another rule of thumb that we always talk about in this podcast is to actually try and use higher frequencies in the morning and lower frequencies in the evening. That's not only going to support the natural processes of the circadian rhythm, but if we're using higher frequencies in the morning, that's going to get us going, give us that up and go feeling and it's going to help with the ATP production and energy throughout that day.

Joshua Roberts 15:24 
Yeah, exactly. So as we kind of always say, high frequencies in the morning, low frequencies in the evening, and just try and vary them. Don't stick to say 12 Hertz in the morning and 4 Hertz in the evening. Try and get a range in if you can. Some devices do offer kind of a range like a program that runs from a certain frequency to another and it changes every minute, for example, or even just kind of if you've got a device that only runs one frequency, put it on one frequency for 10 minutes maybe and change for another 10 minutes. But now kind of looking at actually the process of applying PEMF in the physical kind of term now, how would we apply PEMF for kind of ATP and energy production?

Andy Smith 16:06 
So when it comes to actually applying PEMF ATP and energy, the key is consistency and keeping it simple. Most people would use it daily, typically for around 20 to 30 minutes, depending on the device and the intensity you're using. Ideally, you want to be using something like a full body mat. So you're applying PEMF across the whole body and supporting energy production at a cellular level everywhere, rather than just focusing on one specific area. That said, you can also combine both applicators and both approaches. So, for example, using a full body mat alongside a localised applicator on your specific injury area you want to target. And really, the main takeaway is that you don't need extreme settings or complicated protocols. Lower to medium intensity, consistent use and allowing the body to respond over time is typically the most effective way to support energy production at a cellular level. And what I would add to this is that what I found personally, and what we see in the field, is that adding PEMF and a red light device together and stacking the two is really, really effective for energy production. We've just talked about how PEMF therapy is really good at making the cells use ATP so effectively. Red light therapy just has that edge on recharging the ATP in the body. So if you've got two devices that are working synergistically like that, you've got one device really, really effective at recharging ATP. The other device is making the body really effective at using that ATP. You'll notice the difference when using PEMF and red light stacked together, and it won't add any time onto your day because you could do the two at the same time.

Joshua Roberts 17:48 
Yeah, exactly. That's kind of why we normally suggest about using PEMF and red light together, because it doesn't increase your session time at all. And you can kind of get even more benefits. Andy sometimes uses the analogy of one plus one equals three with PEMF and red light. And yeah, just because of how they stack so well. But as you said at the start, the main thing is really kind of being consistent with it. If you're not going to be consistent, then you're kind of going to lose any benefit really at all. And but now kind of if someone could have one main takeaway from this episode of PEMF and ATP, what would that kind of takeaway be?

Andy Smith 18:23 
Really the main takeaway isn't that PEMF isn't about giving your body more energy instantly, it's about helping your body produce and use energy more efficiently at a cellular level. The research doesn't show that PEMF directly increases ATP in a simple one-step way, but it does show that it can influence the systems behind it. Things like enzymes, mitochondria, circulation and oxygen delivery. And when those systems are working better, that's when you start to see the real-world benefits like improved recovery, better performance and more consistent energy over time. So rather than thinking of PEMF as a quick boost, it's better to think of it as something that helps your body work better under the surface and that's what ultimately supports energy in a more sustainable way.

Joshua Roberts 19:11 
So yeah, as you say, PEMF isn't about kind of directly boosting ATP levels or increasing the number of ATP. It's all about kind of helping support all of the systems behind the production and to kind of use of ATP. And as we've kind of covered in this episode, it doesn't really just use one mechanisms that are quite a few mechanisms behind what PEMF is doing to ATP, which is kind of one of the reasons why it is kind of seen as, yeah, so effective for ATP and kind of energy production and energy levels kind of day to day.

Andy Smith 19:44 
And from a personal note, really, I want to just drive in why this important, this, this episode is so important. Because when people say to me now, why are you using PEMF therapy? I always tell them a lot of the time it's because of the ATP production and the energy that it gives me throughout the day, as someone that's using PEMF therapy now, not for an illness or not to recover from something, which I did 13 years ago. Now I want to use it for sustaining my energy throughout the day, keeping me switched on, keeping me energized, and then helping me sleep. So supporting my circadian rhythm, which we cover in another episode. So really, if you can support your body throughout the day, make it healthier, make it happier. That's what PEMF therapy is all about, and that's why this message is so important.

Joshua Roberts 20:29 
And yeah, and that's exactly why so many people are turning to PEMF, even if they don't have an injury or an illness or anything like that. They are just using it as a day to day kind of boost and to kind of help optimize themselves. And as you say, feel a little bit more energized and have that kind of longer lasting energy and not have that 3PM slump that a lot of people talk about. But if you did enjoy this episode, please do make sure to subscribe. Like follow us on any streaming platform. And while you're there, also give us a five star review. Massively helps us just make more and more of these episodes. And if you could leave us a comment, maybe on any kind of subjects that you would like us to cover, any guests like to have on or any feedback on YouTube or streaming, especially on streaming, because it helps us a lot with kind of pushing the podcast out. That would be massively appreciated.

Andy Smith 21:17 
Thanks for listening to another episode of the PEMF podcast.