Andy Smith 00:00 
A quick disclaimer before we begin, the PEMF podcast does not contain any medical advice and the content provided is for informational purposes only. If you have any health concerns, please visit a healthcare professional. Welcome back to another episode of the PEMF podcast and today I'm joined by Mark Fox, founder of Rosona Health, one of the quickest-growing PEMF devices with a standout being the Rosona Vibe, which a few of our customers actually own, so they've asked us questions about the products a number of times, so we'll take a deeper dive into that and how that works. Today we're going to be diving into all things PEMF, the applications, specifications, and much, much more. But Mark, welcome to the podcast.

Mark L Fox 00:46 
Hey, thank you for having me.

Andy Smith 00:47 
And I'm really excited actually about this episode. Josh, our producer, he, you know, he lets me know when he's managed to get a guest on and who they are. And he mentioned your name. And I was like, great, you know, really want this guy on. Because one of the things I really like about you is that you are not afraid to kind of speak your mind in terms of, you know, the results you're getting from the device. And, you know, you have a great background, which we'll come into. And, you know, it's, it's really frustrating for me in this industry, because PEMF is so powerful, so effective, we know, I know, you know, you know, you see it firsthand, we get these results every single day. Yet if somebody comes to me and knocks on my door and says to me, I've, I've gone into remission. And the only thing I've used, it introduced is PEMF. And I'm like, amazing, you know, and they're convinced, but there's not much I can do with that information.

Mark L Fox 01:46 
Right.

Andy Smith 01:47 
Because we're very hand strung by, you know, the FDA in the USA, the advertising agencies, you know, PEMF is regulated as a wellness product. It doesn't come under medical a lot of the time. So we're very, we're very restricted as to what we can talk about. But we'll come into that, you know, and what I like about yourself, Mark, is that you, you know, you, you still edging on the veer of caution, you know, like to share these, these stories with people and, and, you know, give proper results. So before we go into the specs, kind of application and more, a little bit about you, you transitioned, transitioned from working from spacecrafts and advanced engineering into developing PEMF devices. So how did that journey start and begin?

Mark L Fox 02:33 
Yeah. And I had a couple of things in between as well, but about 27 years ago, it was like my dog, it all started with my dog. So she couldn't come up the stairs one day and we took her to the vet to see what's wrong. And she had severe arthritis in her spine. And so a veterinarian friend of mine, Dr. Oz Jackson, another veterinarian who's in a different state that I know from another organization, he's like, well, there's this magic machine that has energy and frequencies and stuff, and it can reverse arthritis. And I'm like, that's BS. And I don't believe that. But okay, so it's my dog. I'm going to jump into it, try something because Remedil isn't working by itself. So that's how I kind of learned about it was a necessity with my dog is how it started. Shortly after that, I saw what it could do for PTSD. So that was the first spearhead. That was like, this is criminal, that this is a high, high, high success rate with PTSD. It's not invasive. They just can't get to the machines are too expensive. They're being in at the time, you never three states away for me to get to one, right? And, and they're not affordable, right? And they're not accessible. So this doesn't make this is dumb. So I naively went into, I'm not an electrical engineer, but it can't be that hard to build a little coil with an amplifier and a battery. It wasn't as easy as I wanted it to be. But that's why I ended up building device was to make something affordable. That was therapy on the go, as opposed to going to a doctor's office and mats and all those things or having to buy very expensive equipment to take home.

Andy Smith 04:09 
So what got you into, you know, taking a step back from that? What got you into the whole spacecraft and advanced engineering? And, you know, what where did all that start?

Mark L Fox 04:18 
So, I grew up actually in a house I'm in right now. I'm in near Cape Canaveral, Florida. I'm in Cocoa Beach. My dad was in rockets. I wanted nothing to do with rockets because I grew up with rockets my entire life. I don't want anything to do with them, but me and my best friend, I'm a chemical engineer, was my undergraduate. He was a nuclear physicist, and we were both hanging drywall for $3.50 an hour in 1983 when he graduated because nobody in the United States was hiring anybody at that time. So, like, somebody came along, they said, hey, Morton Thuy called, won the space shuttle processing contract at the Cape. Did you turn your resume into them? I'm like, no, I never heard of them. And they're like, give me your resume. So then, that day, I got a call from HR, said, come in, talk to us. It was like the biggest malicious compliance thing you've ever seen in your life because it's like, hey, we're Morton Thuy called, we make rocket motors, especially chemical and salt. And he hands me a brochure. He goes, I go, whoa, what am I going to be doing? He goes, how the hell do I know? Engineering stuff. I'm like, what does that mean? He goes, do you want the job or not? It pays $12.14 an hour. I'm going, well, I'm making $3.50 an hour today. So, yeah, I'll take it. When do I start? He goes, now, go over there. So, they were just processing engineers to get them on the program as fast as they can. So, I did all that assuming, you know, I'd stay there six months or a year and then go find something else. And then I ended up being with the company for like 16 years. So, I wasn't planning on doing that, but that's how that evolved.

Andy Smith 05:42 
So you gained a lot of engineering experience, you know, in the, in one of the best companies in the world when it comes to like space engineering, that sort of thing. So, you know, what you mentioned in your, in your intro there is that you, you heard about PEMF devices, you decided to go away and make one same sort of same sort of thing as I did. You know, I was like, I'm going to, I'm going to go into manufacturing and making PEMF devices pretty simple. Hey, you just put a bit of energy into a coil, creates a magnetic field, job done. But as you found out, and I found out it's not quite as easy that, you know, it comes down to the waveforms, it comes down to frequencies. There's so many different minute details that goes into making a good PEMF device. So what do you think were the biggest problems you found when you started making PEMF device in terms of making a good one? You know, how did it get you to the point of which you are now making an effective PEMF device?

Mark L Fox 06:41 
Yeah, good question. A number of things. One is, I purposely copied what a old iPod looks like for familiarity. So I wanted it. Anyone goes, you know, it looks like an old iPod. Yeah, that was by design. I wanted it to look familiar. Most people will not know this. But when you play it in it, you have the various protocols and you look at the colors on the graph. Those are the same colors as a Star Trek tricorder. Okay, so for older people that know Star Trek, I wanted them to subconsciously know it looks like a quote medical thing, okay, that Dr. Bowles is using. So those are a couple things. The real one's a trade off on all the engineering, which is it's got to be light enough to fit on your neck, right? You want to put out enough energy that it's therapeutic. You don't want to get too hot because it's putting out a lot of energy. Batteries, right? So I have customers every day complain, I want a longer battery, it only lasts five or six hours. My other thing has 20 hours. Well, your other thing doesn't put out energy, right? It's measuring stuff where it's a diagnostic tool, like an aura ring or something or Fitbit, right? So yes, I can put a bigger battery in there, but it's going to be like a football and you can't wear around your neck, right? So all the trade offs of and making it as easy as possible to use, you basically turn it on to now alphabetical order, scroll the one you want hit play. So the easy use interface to make it horrible was like the biggest thing. That's actually why I chose PEMF is not because of PEMF. I chose it as the best solution is energy therapy between electrical current, PEMF lights, vibration sound. PEMF is the best one for therapy on the go because you put it in your pocket, you wear it, you just leave, right? So it's a trade off of all of those things, weight, heat, temperature, ease of use. And that's a never ending design problem, right is, for example, 99% of people running a power level 10. Some people can't handle it at 10. So we have to have power control on it. But when it goes into what I just said, a trade off, the screen will go blank after 15 seconds to save power, but the programs are still running. Because the screen actually takes 10 times more power than the actual coils. So to wake it back up, you press any button, it wakes it back up. What people do is they just blindly click buttons and they turn the power level down. So we literally now we get 10 emails a day, mine's broken. There's no the magnetic tester doesn't jump anymore. And like, there is no longer a 99% probability you turn the power down, we now know it's 100% turn the power back up. Like, how did that happen? Like, well, I'm not in your home. So I don't know exactly, but I'm sure you just clicking stuff and not paying attention. So we actually added in this latest version, if they move it from power level 10 to nine or eight, it gives them a warning. Hey, did you really mean to do that? Because you just turned it down from 10 to nine. So we're having to constantly change things like that to make it more user friendly. So it's long answered your question.  But the design part is never ending, right? You're constantly getting user feedback. Some of it is practical, but ish in the customer's mind, but not good for the masses. For example, every doctor that tells me I want to program a one I go tough crap, not making it. Nope. I don't want to. I don't want to be in that field. I don't want it special. I don't want customers turning knobs and picking frequencies when they don't know what they're doing. I just don't want that I want it pre program usable. We may someday make a version for a doctor that's programmable software and stuff, but probably not. I don't think so because we don't need to I'm trying to do and I'm trying to do a 90 10 rule, right? It's like 90% of the population can use it the way it is pre programed.

Andy Smith 10:37 
Yeah, yeah. And that's good. And I think that's a good feature. You know, there's people sometimes say to me, Oh, why, you know, why do you get what they would call competitors on our podcast? But we, you know, we mentioned this before that there's, there's, we have slightly different views, like, you know, for me, I prefer to use a full body mat, you obviously go for a localized device, that's where your device specializes in. I have narrowed mine down to a very, very small amount of programs to, you know, to avoid people, customers getting, getting confused or using, using different frequencies at the wrong time of day, things like that. Whereas you've gone for a wider, you know, program protocols, features, which is, which is good. And there's these two different, you know, and there isn't really a wrong way to do PEMF. And I think that's, that's the, you know, and there are bad PEMF devices out there, which I've mentioned on this podcast a number of times. And we don't usually get anybody that produces a bad PEMF device on the podcast. But other than those, you know, there's, there's different ways to apply it. And come into that, I, you know, someone might be new to this podcast might be just listening. It might be their first episode they've tuned into and they're thinking, I don't even know what PEMF is. So what could be good is for you to explain what your version of PEMF is. What, what, how do you normally explain to the layman, you know, what is PEMF and how, how is it going to help me?

Mark L Fox 11:58 
Okay, and it stands for pulse electromagnetic fields, and it sounds super fancy and voodoo-ish, but it's actually the Earth's heartbeat. So you're surrounding it, PEMF is not uncommon to us, the planet Earth is engulfed in it. But as I already alluded to, PEMF is the best modality to use for, in my opinion, for energy transfer. So you have to go to a higher level, forget PEMF for a second, go to a higher level, and the way I explain is, nothing in the world happens without an energy exchange. You don't chew food, you don't breathe oxygen, you don't drive a car, you don't cook s'mores in a campfire, right? You don't fall down, hurt yourself. Everything is an energy exchange. So you can do it with electrical current, like a TENS unit that most everyone is familiar with. You can do it with magnetic fields, PEMF, you can do it with light, vibration, or sound. Okay, at least those five ways to transfer energy to the body. PEMF is just the simplest one. And like I said, it's easiest one to make it affordable, small, mobile, those type of things. Now, when you get into, and I get into arguments all the time with doctors on this one, okay? When they get into this mechanism of action crap, and they start beating you to death on that, you go, shut up. You don't even know how aspirin works, it's been around for 3000 years, and if you think you've proven how aspirin works, then you're delusional, because you never have. You've never proven how any drug works. You have theories, but you've never proven it. So get over that part about proving it, okay? It's relief for four reasons, as long as you're not hurting anybody. What we do know, and you already know this, if your listeners are new to it, they may not. In the PEMF world, we know that the voltage on your cells, if the voltage drops like a car battery, you can get sick and it doesn't, your cells don't work. So they don't work as well. You got to have a decent voltage, the proper voltage on the cells to get waste products out and nutrients in the cell. This increases the voltage on the cell. That's been proven. Nobody in this industry will argue that. ATP, which is the main fuel for your cells, it's been shown the PEMF increases that up to 500%. So those two things is recharging your cells' batteries, it's giving your body the cells the food it needs, so the body can do what it does best, which is heal itself. Now, when you deep dive past that, you're going to get into a bunch of arguments about proving it, can you prove it or not? And the answer is no, not my lifetime, and I don't care. I don't care, and I can't prove that. I just want to show therapeutically it works for the majority of people, nothing's going to be 100%, but that's kind of my answer to it. It's an energy exchange, and it's just one way to exchange the energy to the body.

Andy Smith 14:40 
No, and I think that's great. And it's it's it's a, you know, we're trying to try to explain the technology, how it works and how it actually works on the body because at the end of the day, you know, it works for all these different conditions. And it's like we're not targeting headaches. We're not targeting, you know, a broken toe. We're we're targeting the body. We're targeting cells. And then, you know, with the right energy in the cells, with the right, you know, ability to move around the body, reoxygenate, detox, take up nutrients, get rid of waste products. All that sort of thing, the body can then do the job it needs to do, heal itself, and it's more effective. So it's it's a simple breakdown. It's just trying to get people to understand how it's working, all these different things. But I think that's a great, great answer for yourself. I'm going to do a couple of quick fire questions. So what we normally do is we just ask some questions, a couple of couple of word answers, and then later on, I kind of break down these, the answers a little bit more. So

Mark L Fox 15:35 
Ok

Andy Smith 15:35 
Whatever, whatever first comes to comes to the mind. What is what is your most important aspect of a PEMF device?

Mark L Fox 15:45 
That is mobile and affordable. I mean, that's the biggest thing that most people, the problem with a mat is people can't afford most of them. There's nothing wrong with mats, but a lot of them are $7,000. So it's affordability and access

Andy Smith 15:56 
Is a full body mat essential.

Mark L Fox 15:58 
No. So and the reason is common sense would tell you that it is to get full body coverage. I need full body mat. You don't because of three things. It's resonating with the water in your body. Your skin and your organs are electrically conductive and a magnetic field. Alternating is going to make a small current and you have magnetite in your body that allows the energy to transfer. So it's those three things.

Andy Smith 16:19 
Can you stimulate the vagus nerve with PEMF?

Mark L Fox 16:21 
Yes.  And the answer is yes, and we've been on that a lot. We, we have a specific Vegas nerve pendant that we created just for that reason.

Andy Smith 16:31 
A PEMF myth you wish disappeared tomorrow.

Mark L Fox 16:34 
That is voodoo.

Andy Smith 16:36 
Yeah, that's a good one.

Mark L Fox 16:37 
Right.

Andy Smith 16:37 
Do you think certain frequencies work better for certain things than others?

Mark L Fox 16:42 
They do, we can deep dive into that some because I don't quote, use frequencies. I use frequency pairs and protocols and songs. They're actually, our device is actually an MP3 player. It's used in a frequency pair. And what you said earlier, it actually can target a broken foot or wounding and specific things. So we can get into that. That's a whole rabbit hole we can go into, but we're in short.

Andy Smith 17:06 
No, no worries. One thing people always get wrong about PEMF?

Mark L Fox 17:12 
Again, back to this voodoo and magic. So I tell people, look at all of the technology advancements in the world that were impossible until they weren't. MRIs, CRISPR, DNA sequencing, all that. Nobody, nobody listening, no one could have fathomed what you and I and everyone else is doing with chat GPT five years ago. What we're doing today, right? That technology is there and it didn't exist five years ago. AI didn't wake up till 2022. So keep an open mind because there's a whole world out there you don't understand. 99.9%.

Andy Smith 17:45 
Okay, a couple more frequency or intensity, which is the bigger mover?

Mark L Fox 17:48 
Frequency

Andy Smith 17:49 
Most overhyped claim in the PEMF space?

Mark L Fox 17:52 
That bigger is better.

Andy Smith 17:55 
Good. No, I thought he was gonna say that. Okay, let's let's let's take a deeper dive into some of those. So your device is localized system. And, you know, obviously, when you look at the market, there's a lot of full body PEMF devices out there. You know, the device that I manufactured that my make is a combination of the two, it's a full body and a localized so kind of like ticking two boxes. Can the small device still influence the whole body? So there's a nice analogy that I know that you've used before and in another podcast, I'm hoping you're going to use it now. So yeah, talk to me about your your localized device and how that can influence the whole body.

Mark L Fox 18:29 
A couple things is a magnetic field by itself doesn't travel very far, but you put it in top pocket and you said a broken foot, it helps heal a broken foot. How is that possible? How is the energy getting there? So you have to start asking questions, right? Because pure physics says it can't without thinking about it. The other clue is we know it doesn't work as well, any PEMF, if you're not hydrated, going with electrolytes, right? So the first one is it's like a pebble in a pond, right? So it's localized, the energy source where the device is at, but it's traveling through the water in your body, like a wave. The second one is, you remember from school, the alternating electrical current or magnetic field is going to make the opposite, right, at the same time. So it's an alternating magnetic field, it's going to make a very small, most people can't feel it, electrical current, and your body's conductive, your skin and your organs are conductive, there's high resistance, but they're still conductive. So it's traveling just like any electricity would travel through your body. And then the third one that most people need, most people in the industry agree with those two things for sure. Magnetite was the thing that's in turtles, sea turtles and birds that humans believe is what they use to migrate, was always believe that humans do not have magnetite in their cells. We do, it's just at lower concentrations. So just picture a chain of magnets like dominoes, if your cells have magnetite in them, it should be able to transfer energy that way. But it's those clues that, and you get to something like PTSD, there is no place in your body that it just exists by itself. It's in every cell, your organs, it's through your whole body. So you have to have full body coverage, but it doesn't mean you have to lay on a mat to do it. And I'm not knocking the mats because they're fantastic. A lot of PEMF devices are awesome out there. It's just what you want for your specific need. I was going after an affordable niche that's portable.

Andy Smith 20:20 
Yeah, and I think the so that this important is the application kind of changes and and correct me if I'm wrong here. So if you are going to be wearing, you know, if you want to get systemic effects with a more localized device, ideally you want to be using it for a longer period of time, which is absolutely fine with a portable device because you can put in your pocket, you can put it around your neck and you can go about your your daily business. So, you know, if we said to someone that you had to lay on a mat for two hours, that would be a pain in the ass, you know, but using the localized device, you know, you can use that for two hours without it being a pain in the ass because you you can strap it on, you can and you can go about your your day. So what what's the general, you know, session time with with the Arizona vibe? Like what what's recommended or does that also depend on what you're trying to achieve?

Mark L Fox 21:10 
The last part you just said is very important. It's exactly what you're trying to achieve. So the protocols are all completely different. They're frequency pairs and they change every one to four minutes on average. So if you think of it this way, the frequency pair is a chord on a guitar and the protocol is a song and every song on the album is different. Now the average protocol is going to be about 40 minutes on the vibe. 30 is the shortest, two and a half hours, plus a little now on PTSD is going to be the most complex and the longest. We tell everyone run it because this comes from the clinical world, run it three to four times a week for a month. And if it doesn't help you by then, it's not going to for whatever reason, or you misdiagnose yourself or somebody misdiagnosed you and you're running the wrong protocols now. And you have to after having said that people that come to this technology are either long-term mentally or physically broken, right? Or they feel that they're broken. Nothing else has worked for them. The drug side effects are awful. So when they find a solution that works, they do not care that Mark just said, use it three to four times a week. They'll use it 10 times a day, even though I tell them not to because they don't care. And they don't want to do a scientific project on themselves say, Hey, I know it's working at 10 times a day. I'm going to cut back to twice a week and see my pain comes back. They go, screw it. It's too easy to use. I'm just going to run it all the time. So once in a while we get people contact us go, it's making me tired. Well, how many protocols you run in a day? 18. Okay. Pick the top two and cut back a little bit. Take a breath. Your body needs time to take the energy and do something with it. So yeah, so it's a weird kind of experiment because we can't control what everybody's doing. If we could ever figure out what women do in the bathroom, because we have so many of them dropping in the toilet. It's like, I don't know where stop dropping in the toilet. I don't know how you it's constant. It's like we've put all kinds of water protection and stuff on it and seals and everything. Just for that reason is every time it gets wet, it's a toilet incident. It's like

Andy Smith 23:13 
Well, see, I mean, you know, people come rely on their device, you know, when when they start seeing the benefits and start, you know, I've got a few friends of mine now that I've almost hooked on it because they they can't go to bed now and they can't sleep without their device under their pillow. So, you know, and and they've only got one between between the married couple, one goes away to, you know, on business for a couple of days and they can't sleep. So, you know, it's.

Mark L Fox 23:37 
I have not experience a lot of that, I haven't, but most people that have stick, so one of, cause you hit on an important point there. Routine is good. Here's, it's not even good. First point's not even going to be what you think it is. Put it somewhere and charge it in the same place every night so you don't lose it. That's number one, because so many people lose the thing, right? It's like, cause it is so small and convenient, right? Get a routine, especially sleep. Don't put it under your pillow because most people are knocking on the floor and if you've got tile, you're going to break it. He's going to be much more effective for most people to run it an hour before you go to bed and then just leave it on, leave it in your charging station, that type of thing. But yeah, everybody's different. So you got to try a different thing to see what works for you.

Andy Smith 24:16 
No, and you mentioned during that that you have frequency pairs and that for me, when I was developing my system again, was really important. So when I look back at the very first PEMF device I owned, it was a German brand. It was called Magnetovitals. It was, you know, it got me out of a sticky situation at the time, which was great. But you could only set it to one frequency. So you could set it for half an hour, put it on one frequency and it would run. And I got some amazing results to start with and then everything just plateaued. And I couldn't seem to, you know, I couldn't, I couldn't work out why I wasn't getting, why these results weren't kind of continuing on an uphill curve until I started introducing other PEMF devices. And I later learned that your body can get used to one frequency very quickly. So, you know, it's like with anything, you know, like you mentioned, you have like, you know, you introduce something new, you introduce a new therapy. If you continue doing that therapy exactly the same and in the exact same routine, your body almost ignores it and gets used to it. So same thing for me when I was developing my system was to go down this route of applying a number of different frequencies throughout each program. So it, you know, it switches, it changes, which is what you mentioned, which is really interesting to know. And again, for me, really separates the difference between, you know, a good PEMF device and a product that knows what it's doing. And, you know, and the engineer behind it has done the research and understood because you're not just going to get the initial benefits. They're going to keep going. But you went down more of a route of lots of different programs and, you know, trying to target things more specifically. Was there any rhyme or reason in times of what frequencies you chose? Do you know what I mean? So because, you know, customers always ask me, they want they want this Bible of frequencies. You know, they want to open it up to this condition and it will give them this frequency and then they apply that and they're better. So when you came down to developing and choosing the frequencies, you know, how did you choose the frequencies for those different programs?

Mark L Fox 26:19 
So a couple of things, most of the programs that are on there are, came from 8,000 practitioners over 35 years of playing with it. Mark didn't come up with them. I just figured out how to turn them into MP3 files and use them that way. Things like Earth 7.83 human frequency, that is very specific because it's 7.83 Hertz and you don't want to necessarily move that. But to answer, there's some multiple questions in there. So most of them came from the clinical environment of people trial and error. If you picture chords on a guitar and their song, there are people jamming in their garage, right? You're changing this, you're throwing in a horn. I took a cowbell in, took this out, added some more bass and that always is happening. So we're changing, the core protocols don't change that much, but we'd have to make up new ones like Lyme disease. I had 200 people ask me, what do you have for Lyme? Nothing. Quit asking me that. I don't have anything. I'm not a doctor. So then you get beat up enough and you look at people of the half Lyme for 20 years. Okay. So it's like, all right. I go find a doctor says one to four Hertz will kill it, but be careful because it's going to have a her time of reaction. It's going to spit poison. Blah, blah, blah. Sure enough. So the study we ran, the good news, bad news is a hundred percent, it worked for a hundred percent of the people because they all got sick, all of them and they quit using it. Okay. Time out. So let's go back to power level five instead of 10. Kill it slowly. Killing me softly, right? Then use the liver protocol to clean toxins out, then run Vegas nerve to rebalance yourself and then rinse and repeat. That is working. So you have to kind of make up mixing songs together on your album when they don't exist. The other thing you said about getting used to it, homeostasis. Yes. So like the Vegas nerve, instead of targeting 12 Hertz, it's going to go 12 Hertz for three minutes and it's going to go 12.5 and 11.5. It's doing what I call a sweep around the center, right? Because you're in the marketing world, we have a thing called broker area. Your brain, that part of your brain makes anything that looks normal, blocks it because it was looking for other stuff. So when you're writing ads that they're dull and boring, your brain doesn't hear them. It's the same logic as deer running in front of your car. You broke it went, whoa, deer, that's different. Stop, hit brakes. So your body does that. It gets so used to cruising down the road or you're on autopilot in your car. So yeah, it's using a sweep on some frequencies for that exact reason you mentioned earlier. So your body quote doesn't get completely used to it.

Andy Smith 28:59 
Okay, and on the flip side of the coin, should we say, to frequencies is intensity. So, you know, and I blame America for this one because America always wants strong, powerful, you know, big engines, big cars. And, you know, the need for this insanely intense PEMF device, you know, really has been driven by the American market. And, you know, for me, there is a market for these high intensity devices, but to the very niche, right professional, you know, really in clinics, that sort of thing, there is no reason for anybody to go over, you know, in my opinion, 100 Gaussto use at home. You know, it just, it's not necessary. When we was developing the celebrate device, you know, we were looking at the home market and, you know, people say to me, why didn't you make it stronger? And we're like, well, we didn't need to. When you look at the research and don't quote me on this, it's around 95% of the PEMF papers, clinical papers, all the clinical trials that have been done, that have a positive result are using PEMF devices between one and a hundred Hertz. So if all of that data is out there, you know, 95 or over 95% of all that data is there to say that all these products had a great positive response, then why do we need to make it 8,000 gauss? You know, why should we do that? You know, to make ourselves more competitive on paper when you look at the tick box. So, you know, what's your argument in terms of how do you convince people that nine Gauss and the Rosona vibe is enough? You know, it's what you need to do what they need to do.

Mark L Fox 30:45 
Very good question. You can't convince some people that you just tell them to go try it and see if it works. But a whole bunch of things you cover there with intensity versus strength and all those things is, again, because a magnetic field in physics falls off quickly with the square of the distance, the original initial thought for most people is, oh, it's got to be really strong to cover your whole body or go through your knee. They're not talking about what we're talking about later, earlier with resonance and conductivity and those type of things. Bigger is not necessarily better. It's the biggest argument I have because here's what's interesting. If you just go man on the street with a microphone, this is my experience, and you've probably seen this too, is you go, hey, do you know what PEMF is? One out of 15 people are going to say yes. They know what a Beamer mat is. They've seen a clinical bite, right? One out of 100% of anyone on the street that you ask that question to who's a horse owner knows exactly what it is. They know what Magna Wave is. They've all seen the machine. They've had the horse treated with it or some horse there at the stables. I believe that's completely wrong with the same thinking is it's a thousand pound animal. I got to have a huge goss for it to work. Now, when you see a horse's muscles twitching like a 10 unit, that's too much energy. It doesn't need it. And my opinion is a horse is more energy sensitive than a person. So it doesn't have anything to do with the weight. Now, this is where you get trouble with the deep dive. We'll just touch on it because it's controversial because can't prove any of it very well. But one of the theories is back to the cell, the cell membrane, you want the energy to go through the interstitial fluid between the cells to massage the cell membrane with the energy at the membrane. When you throw 20,000 goss as it blows through your entire body, it doesn't have a chance to be effective at the membrane. Now, how do you go prove that? That's a super hard thing to go do. But I go back to relief before reason, look at subjective data, right, which is your AVS scale, analog visual scale on pain, still the gold standard is zero to 10. It came in the office at a nine or left at a three, right? But we have all of these biomarkers watches. We have all these other things. Look at heart rate variability, look at your sleep patterns, all that stuff. Is it affecting you helping us? This is our new watch came out with two things to simplify it that we're seeing over and over sleep and heart rate variability. If those two improve, you're going in the right direction. So don't overcomplicate it a whole bunch of other stuff because those are the two biggest indicators really are sleep and HR, HRV.

Andy Smith 33:17 
No, great. And it's a good answer. And if people want to take a deeper dive into that, we did do a whole episode on just power and intensity, you know, high versus low intensity with Brian Myers. So switch back a couple of episodes, listen to that one. It's really good, you know, in terms of really breaking down where both those technologies fit in the best. We've heard you on another podcast talking a lot about the Vegas nerve when it comes to PEMF. So how important for you do you think the Vegas nerve is when it comes to simulation and PEMFs?

Mark L Fox 33:46 
Yeah, the honest answer is for several years is like, I don't know anything about the vagus nerve, leave me alone. Because I didn't. Yeah, I got beat up so much about it. So I've done so much research on it now. And it is probably the most important factor. It's for people that don't know, it's nerve that goes down your brain, both sides, your neck clusters around your heart, and it goes to all your organs, rest your body, it is the superhighway. So here's the analogy I put my book Go Find Joy with rockets and nervous system is the vagus nerve is a it's mission control. It's telling the brain what to do the organs, what to do back and forth. It's the communication. It is the feedback loop. It's the feedback system is to trajectory. So people that are flooring the gas in the car and holding the brake at the same time, your vagus nerve is out of balance. So it's extremely important. And we're seeing that, right? We're seeing 50% increases in heart rate variability, anxiety levels come down with like one hour sessions of the vagus nerve. So it's super, super important. For things we haven't even thought of that I haven't thought of, right? So I have four people in the same week tell me they're AFib dropped from 97% to two with the vagus nerve stimulator, Mike, how you even measuring that they go with our Apple Watch, they know Apple Watch even measured that. So now we're trying to get a doctor to do a vagus nerve AFib study or pots and some of these, right? So you get those kinds of reactions. We have hundreds and hundreds of stories of people, customers finding a discovery of what it's doing for them. I've got multiple ones on addiction, whether it's potato chips, heroin or cocaine, that it's helping a lot with and Mike, I never knew it could do that. And it's one of the sofa geo frequencies. So you're like, right, let's go run a study on and getting doctors to finish a study is the hardest thing on the planet. It's they're phenomenal how difficult it is, even when you pay them, put the stuff out there trying to just they don't finish stuff. We have I can't say the a word but MCI, moderate cognitive impairment. We have got one when you're somewhere. It's a device that you're going to wear around on your wrist and back of your neck. That's going to be for that MCI, which I need to go get the clinical data to prove it works first. I'm not going to sell them. I got to pile them over here that I'm waiting to go get that trial done, which it can't get completed. So now I gotta go find another wellness center, aging center or something to do studies so we can get the actual data. And off the top, we're just looking for before and after surveys called promise, right is like, did you cognitive impairment prove or not. But I know it's gonna work. Because MIT already discovered it by accident that 40 hertz works with light. There's a whole nother story and go down there. I got to school MIT professor once because he was not thinking it through. But anyway, we already know it works. We just got to go get the data before we try to market it.  But I'm super excited about it. It's the simple thing you just wear on the back of your neck or on your wrist. Use it for an hour a day. So super exciting stuff we keep coming across and we learn something new every day, right?

Andy Smith 36:59 
Yeah, and it comes back to what I was saying about, you know, before we can, we know these things work, but before we can make medical claims with them, before we can link them to conditions, you know, we have to prove using these studies that, you know, that it's super effective for these, but which is annoying because there are so many, like I saying, you know, thousands and thousands of PEMF studies already out there that linking PEMF to all these different things. And it's really interesting for me because we had a Dr. Nicola Condon on the podcast, a few back as well. And what Dr. Nicola Conlon was looking at was she was in the drug development and, you know, some of these big, big pharma companies wanted her to develop a drug for like longevity or a drug for these different things. And during the process, during the trials, what she was finding was that all of these, you know, natural remedies or natural herbs and things like that, that you can get from, you know, over the years. So, you know, it was really effective for these certain things. But what the drug company wanted was they wanted one that was patentable. So you had to alter its structure slightly to make it patentable. So, you know, she would be trying with different potions and things and she'd get down to and, you know, and so what they were trying to achieve, they'll say, right, what was the most effective? Okay, it was like turmeric or something. Okay, what's the next one? It was this, you know, all these things got down to the ninth most effective thing, which was something they could patent and they're like, right, we'll run with that. And you think, you know, all them things above that were more effective, that are easily, you know, because and that comes back to PEMF because PEMF is also quite hard to patent. Because at the end of the day, electromagnetic fields in these frequencies and these, you know, they've been around for many, many years, they're quite difficult to patent. And again, it's why these medical industries or why these big farmers and things like that aren't really interested in this technology. It works so well, but it's very difficult to patent and very difficult to protect. And, you know, it's a real pain in the ass for, you know, people like us that are trying to make this sound more effective and show people how it's helping. But, you know, it's a difficult technology to kind of wrap around. And something you mentioned quite frequently is PTSD. And we see that quite a lot with the smaller devices that are more targeted with frequencies, that they're really good with, you know, we call them mental conditions or neurological issues, that sort of thing. You know, why do you think yours is so effective for the treatment? Well, I shouldn't say that again, shouldn't say the treatment, but why do you think it's effective for people using it for PTSD?

Mark L Fox 39:43 
A couple of things you want to hit on first that you said are very important because you said it's super high success rate. All right, we'll go back for a minute with PEMF. What's the success rate of any drug? About 60. Yeah. About 60%, 70 max, okay. So the drug companies aren't hitting, they're not batting a thousand, they're not even close, right? So keep that in mind. The reason the PTSD one I have is most effective is because I had a doctor that's been playing with it, refining it, rewriting it for 30 years. That's the answer, right? She just studied that. And so I don't want to say her name because she doesn't want me to, but she contacted me when she found the device and she goes, you saved my life because I had a military veteran says, hey, long story short, she's like, you need to go build a device that's affordable. So every soldier has one. And she goes, I don't, I'm not an engineer. I don't know how to do that. And she didn't, right? And so when I, so she, she calls me every other week now, tell me new stuff I need to go work on, which is some really cool things. For example, she wants me to go solve nonverbal, autistic children communication with it. That's a rabbit hole. We could go down and she's like, okay, 7.83 Hertz, blah, blah, blah. I told her nobody's going to fund telepathy. Okay. Nobody's going to fund telepathy, but they may fund radio communication. So if I say 7.83 is the carrier frequencies, I start using the right language. Maybe somebody will fund that. But to answer questions, PTSD is such a success rate because, uh, MD has dedicated her life to this technology and trying to make it work. And that's the protocol I'm using as the one she, she gave me. Um, yeah, there's another part to your question there, but I forgot what I'll shut up. Maybe you can ask it again.

Andy Smith 41:28 
What is it to do with the PTSD or did you, as in like, why do you think you're, you know, the frequency sets are effective, but that's because you say that that doctor was the one that used was dictating those, those frequencies that you're using.

Mark L Fox 41:43 
PTSD is the most complex one. It has 76 different frequency pairs in it that are targeting 76 different things in the body. And she called, first time she called me up, she goes, can I see the actual protocol? I go, you wrote it. So here it is. She goes, that's what I thought. So-and-so that she took out those four frequency pairs. That's super important. She doesn't know what she's talking about. Put them back in. I'm like, yes, ma'am. I put the four back in because he had all this data to support why those four things are super important that we're missing. And so the next version that we put out, we did that. So as I said earlier, this is a jam band, right in a garage, and we're making new songs and changing cowbells and horns, not all the time because some of them are solid and they work really well. But I wish Andy, I wish the success rate was a hundred percent. It's not, nothing is. Probably the lowest success rate we have is 60, 65% for prostate. And the reason I wish it was so much higher is, you know, off of my cell phone, there's 10,000 people that have my cell number, right? I get old, grumpy men, older than me, that are all pissed off because it didn't work for their prostate. And I'm like, I told you, there's a 35% chance they ain't gonna. So that's why we have money back to guarantee. But most of the protocols are north of 90%.

Andy Smith 42:58 
Yeah, and you know, is that because people are keeping their phone in their pocket for 98% of the day and using the vibe for the remaining 2%, you know, it's you're fighting the losing battle there. That's it's that's the thing, you know, you've got to try and integrate these things into into the normal back to normality.

Mark L Fox 43:16 
Right.

Andy Smith 43:17 
You also sound like you've got a worse affliction for me that than me when it comes to people, you know, one person comes to you and says, I've got this application, can you do something for it? And you know, you run away and solve the problem. But, you know, I've got to start focusing now, you know, someone will come to me and just say, how can you put an eye applicator in your device? Yeah, yeah, we can do that. That'd be amazing. So, you know, you go away and because I've heard you talking about all sorts of different prototypes. And was that something on your wrist? Is that something to do with your device? Or is that a different thing?

Mark L Fox 43:48 
Say that again. What's the question? I'm sorry.

Andy Smith 43:50 
The device you had on your wrist, is that a prototype or is that?

Mark L Fox 43:54 
This one or this one?

Andy Smith 43:56 
This one, the black. Well, between the two, are they both to do with the vibe or are they different?

Mark L Fox 44:01 
They're completely different protocols. So different devices. So we have the vibe, we have the Vega vibe, which is Vegas nerve pendant, right? We've got other stuff coming. We've got this watch. So the watch is not putting any energy out. It's like a Fitbit, but we've changed. So it has heart rate variability. It has some of the other things I want, and you can upload it to the cloud as soon as we get the new application. This one's going to be for my MCI, cognitive impairment, Alzheimer's that you're going to wear on the back of your neck, on your wrist. It's very, very simple. I mean, it's a one button thing. So it's putting out 40 Hertz light and 40 Hertz PEMF at the same time. And the reason we're putting on your neck or your wrist, like my friend said, who's fantastic marketer, the doctors are telling me it's probably going to work better on the wrist. And my marketing guys are like, yeah, but it's way easier to sell on the back of your neck. Just from a marketing point of view. And it'll probably work in both places. So we'll see. But yeah, that one's called blue vibe. It's just a different product specifically. Again, when you go into the doctor world, here's what doctors want. Most of them, I want something that's got a big button on it and you press it and it does nothing else. And just hand it to the nurse and the nurse knows what to do. There's nothing, the program can't do anything because we're cycling people, right? So that's what this was. But yeah, you turn it on, you don't do nothing else has no screen, not giving you any choices. They literally want something to take like post surgery. Just I want to put it on the person's chest while they're laying in bed and they click a button and the button needs to be so dumb. Like white means it's on. Yeah. No light means it's off. So press it on walk away. So there's all those needs of how specific do you want to make a certain product? And then I have friends going, hey, mad scientist, you're getting crazy with the inventor. I just quit making up new stuff, like anti ripple cream that we have now and all these other things. So I am trying to focus more quit design a new thing, but it's fun.

Andy Smith 46:00 
Yeah. That's it. You got to try and focus on one thing. You know, I've been the same. You know, we've been at one point we were selling trampolines and stuff like that. You know, we've got to focus just because of the fact that, you know, the customers are the same. But, you know, it's my focus now is on one product and it's perfecting. Something you've mentioned before and I wanted to just touch on it is blood sugar regulation. So, and, you know, it's not something you meant you kind of hear too often in PEMF. So, where's the link with blood sugar and PEMFs?

Mark L Fox 46:34 
What we have is an insulin resistance protocol, which is actually the same as the weight loss program, which means if your blood sugar is high due to insulin resistance, we have a super high success rate with it. And again, it came from trial and error, like most of the protocols. It's interesting because that's how I get most of my new wholesalers. This is a scenario that happens every day. Page a watch to the doctor. A doctor goes, oh my God, you finally listened to what I've been telling you for 10 years. A1C has never been below eight. It's 5.7. Your blood sugar, everything looks good. You finally start exercising and do what I told you to. And they go, no, I started using this. And then the doctor calls and goes, what is this thing? And what, who the hell are you and how is this possible? And we have this conversation and he's like, he goes, it's impossible. Can't possibly work. I was never trained on that. Well, go buy a couple of them, stick them in your office and see. Now, the exact mechanism of action to how it does it, I don't know. And I'll never know. Okay. It just came from trial and error. And it's a weird diagnostic tool. If it doesn't lower your blood sugar, your blood sugar, your elevated blood sugar, isn't probably due to insulin resistance. It's something else, whatever that could be. I said that to a doctor one time, he's like, you can't really fake insulin. He goes, the title of my new book is stress induced diabetes. And he's got all these patients where their blood sugars are 330. They're on four meds. It can't get to come down. Then their daughter moves out of the house and it drops to a hundred with nothing else changing. So he's getting all this data of just the stress induced stuff. So that blood sugar isn't from insulin resistance directly. Anyway, it's coming from stress, which the Vegas nerd could help with those types of things. So that's why I told him, and there's some other cool stuff. And I got doctors like, you know, this is really helping with stem cell therapy. I'm like, well, well, if we run Vegas nerve ahead of time before the stem cell therapy, it's much more effective. So we need to buy a bunch of things. Cool. Goodbye. A bunch of them, right? Like they're opening a bunch of stem cell centers. So there's last thing just to allude to it. Cause we get 300 emails a day that go like this. Hey, do you have anything for RS and JC? Mike, what the hell is that? Right? So you can't Google it without a cold drink. Cause you can't unsee the pictures, right? You don't ever want to go to pub med unless you, you're a strong person, but you type it in and you go, okay. It usually takes about 10 seconds to look at it and go, is it inflammation of something, which is going to be about 80% of the ailments. So then you tell somebody to run general inflammation. Is it nerve related, run fibromyalgia, run the Vegas nerve protocol, right? Sleep related, run sleep, toxicity, like said liver, right? Allergies. Does it smell like an allergy at all? Food, pollen, try the allergy protocol. So there's a handful of ones that you just tell people, I don't know what that is.  I never even heard of that acronym, but go try this. And a lot of times it works. Not always, but a lot of times it does.

Andy Smith 49:30 
That is the risk, you know, you almost become a bit of a GP in this industry when you try not to, you know, it's like they people start throwing conditions at you and we, you know, we have daily medical notes sent to us. We're not asking for this information. It's like, you know, TMI, keep that to yourself. You know, we'll tell you how to reuse the products and things. But, you know, it's yeah, it's a tricky one to navigate. You mentioned in their stem cell therapy and we did an episode with Christian Drapeau and spoke about specifically PEMF and how it can influence stem cell reproduction and and using it alongside stem cell therapy. So it was good, good kind of mention there. And if you're anybody wants to listen to that one, it's a really good episode to listen to. Just in terms of sleep, because I just want to touch on that, because we often have people, you know, say to us, they're lying on our full body mat and it's uncomfortable and, you know, they can't sleep on it. And actually, we don't recommend you do that. Using a localized device, you know, by the bedside or on the pillow to influence the brain states is way more effective than actually laying on a mat for sleep. Can you do the same thing with the Rosona? Is that is is, you know, how what's the protocol when it comes to sleep with that?

Mark L Fox 50:38 
Yeah, there's a specific sleep protocol for 46 minutes, and I say run it an hour before bedtime. And then if you have a few minutes, 20 minutes, something after that, you don't have to run brainwave Delta, right? So just the sleep protocol, which is going to ramp you down, then go to Delta. Me personally, I use that more than any protocol. Not for sleep duration, necessarily, but it does help with that. My lifelong struggle with nightmares, people trying to kill me and guns and knives coming at me. When I run the sleep protocol, I don't get any of that I get jokingly I say get because it's half joking is I get Halle Berry, right? I get something that just like really nice and calm or I'm on the beach or I'm sailing or something. Those are normally my dreams when I run the protocol. And I will catch myself when I have a nightmare and wake up and go, did I run it tonight? Because I don't do it. I don't use it every day or every night. But that's the number one thing I use it for is sleep.

Andy Smith 51:36 
Yeah. And is there a best time for you to use PEMF therapy? Like, if somebody said to me, you like, I've only got, you know, I've only got this certain window in the day to apply this device, you know, when, when would you, when would you recommend is the best time?

Mark L Fox 51:51 
Yeah, whatever's convenient for you, but like driving to work or whatever, or so one of the challenges we have with that for instance, like we tell people you need to be hydrated for it to be most effective. And then people complain, well, I can't drink water in the morning. Okay. Then don't do it in the morning. Right. I mean, it'll still work. It's just going to be more effective if you're properly hydrated. It's more your lifestyle. One guy didn't work for very well and I go, how much water are you drinking? He goes, I'm hydrated. I go, well, how much water do you drink a day? This is honest answer. He gave me, he goes, I don't drink any water. I go, why do you think you're hydrated? He said, I had a protein drink last week, Mike. So it's not going to work as well if you're not hot for resonance with the water and those types of things. It's really more of convenience. When I said that about driving and stuff, one caution, I will say the first time you're using it, do not be driving or operating machinery or canopole because it can get you stoned or drunk. If you're in long-term chronic pain, your body just freaks out and releases endorphins real quick. So I had a lady over here who had a backpedal and sit in a chair because she was seeing double vision in like three minutes. So Mike, and it's rare, but if you're in long-term pain like that, first time you use it, don't be driving. Don't be operating machinery and see how you react to it. Most people don't get that reaction, but if you're in a lot of pain, you might because your body is kind of does a runner's high like you, that stuff's gone, right? So yeah, it's more routine than it is, hey, Thursdays at four o'clock are always better than mornings on Tuesdays.

Andy Smith 53:26 
And it's be smart with it, isn't it? That's the thing, you know, you're introducing a new therapy, something that is really going to influence the body. Don't do it while driving, you know, for the first time. You know, it's a good point to bring up. You had your little device a minute ago and it's got, you know, your little prototype there and it's got you've introduced red light or light therapy into it, which is a great therapy that we're seeing being linked to PEMF, you know, and I use daily I use PEMF and red light as a kind of a full body thing. What was your influence to introduce the light therapy and what, you know, what do you think that can add to the PEMF?

Mark L Fox 54:03 
So people that aren't familiar with MIT studies, so they discovered light at 40 hertz reduces plaque in the brain and may reverse Alzheimer's. They discovered it by complete accident using a literally a white rope light trying to study something completely different. And then when they did biopsies on the mice's brain, they saw the plaque was disappearing. So hey, we're on to something. So that's why I introduced light. I even asked MIT, why did you use white light? It's this is MIT. And this is how lame the answer is. Because that's what was on the shelf at Walmart, right? They bought a rope light. They didn't look at the frequency. They didn't look at any of that stuff. They just used a white light. I actually went to chat GPT and said, red light is what I should put in there, right? No, it should be blue light for this reason. Because what you're trying to do with those specific meridians gave me a bunch of research papers on it. And like I said earlier, chat TPS on blue. And then at the end, he goes, do you want the part numbers for the LEDs? And where to buy them? Yeah, I do. They did all that. So that's why there's specific frequency why I didn't create a frequency that isn't off the shelf LED that have to go manufacturer and all that stuff. Yeah, the le the blue LEDs are part number chat GPT gave me and the manufacturer.

Andy Smith 55:15 
People that you know people are going to stop thinking for themselves and honestly i think every one of every two emails i get now is the long dashes in it so i know it's been written by chat GPT i would be bothered to go through and take them out yeah.

Mark L Fox 55:28 
But you know what? So here's real quick, one thing changed my business model. So because we're growing super, super fast, but we're not really barely profitable and scary as hell every month, right? I only have November's numbers yet, but it's close, right? So what dawned on me is the biggest ROAS that I have in the company is my affiliates, because they're ROAS like five, we pay the largest commissions because we paid 20%. But it still beats the living crap out of Facebook and Zuckerberg, which is the most optimal ROAS in the world. Where I'm going with this point was I've been not wanting to scale it because we have 1,400 affiliates. And if I get it to 50,000 and do what I did yesterday, Andy, which is sit there for seven hours, paying people, chat GBT, now I can just go do this. I wrote the whole protocol yesterday on how to prototype the nine steps, go find the refunds, match it to this thing, A1's double counting, go match these orders, take out zeros, add this over here, do this, and scripting all that. I can now scale this to a million affiliates and do it on a pay. I could pay everyone in one day. Never could I have done that six months ago. So I've always keep telling my friends, the next highest paying job near term is going to be the correct prompter because I'm learning how to prompt myself to prompt to write the ass stuff, ask the right things. And I use it 20 times a day. I mean, I'm not obsessed with it, it's making my business and my life that much more efficient, staying ahead of the game. We're using it all the time for customer service. We still review everything it says before we give it to a customer, but it's, dude, it's finding stuff I said five years ago. Then I'm like, where is that? I know I said that. I was trying to find that the other day and I couldn't find it. Oh, it's over here. Let me go for you. Here's the paper that you wrote, blah, blah, blah. So I think none of us can imagine what that's going to look like in 10 years. You just can't.

Andy Smith 57:23 
Yeah. Well, funny enough, my next question that I've got here is exactly that, you know, where do you see the PEMF industry in 10 years? Because, you know, you've mentioned that you're super busy, yes, and I assume that's because, you know, we're recording this a couple of days after Black Friday and Cyber Monday. You know, at CELLER8, we've seen incredible growth over the last year. And, you know, a lot of that, I think, is that people are actually starting to understand and see the benefits of PEMF and it is becoming more mainstream, which is great. It does start put it into that trend part, and then we start seeing some cheap, nasty, horrible Chinese junk spreading the market. But, you know, we're dealing with that. But, you know, the growth in the PEMF industry is there. It's finally, finally progressing, and, you know, even most of ourselves are coming through word of mouth. It's not even the own marketing we do. You know, someone buys one, they have such a great response to it, they share it with their friends, and we end up seeing it more. But, you know, with the integration of AI now as well, like we've just talked about, you know, where do you personally see this industry going in in 10 years' time?

Mark L Fox 58:37 
I don't know. I can't think that far here. I can tell you where I think it's going in a year or less. So because it's on our roadmap, right? So this watch is going to, if the customer chooses, is going to go into the cloud. So the tons and tons more AI doctor, right? You can have an AI doctor looking at trend data, doing all this stuff for you, given analysis, those type of things. PEMF, as we talked about earlier, in my opinion, right, one of five ways to transfer the energy. So I'd rather answer the question is, where is energy therapy going? PEMF is part of that. This is my dream, is to put myself out of business. So a couple of ways to go do that. One is turn your phone into a PEMF device. Now, most phones have a Qi coil in it that you charge in the battery. I put out a $25,000 contest to say, somebody figure out how to hack the OS so I can send the signal out of the coil instead of putting power in. So I just want to app. So I'm using the coil and the phone that's already there to run because our protocols are MP3s. Nobody can do that yet. I haven't found the right person. I won't show it to you because it's in development, but it's going to be like that real quick, a little dongle that's going to plug in, which I woke up 10 days ago and went, you idiot. I know I designed this five years ago. Why didn't it work? I went and pulled up my files at three in the morning. It's because five years ago, phone had a 3.5 millimeter audio jack that doesn't have enough power. Every phone now has USB-C so we can make a little dongle for next to nothing, maybe give them away for free. Okay. Turn your phone into a device. The other one is, I said it could be delivered light, sound vibration, electrical current, or PEMF. Light. I've been working on this for three years. The smart bulbs that most people have in their homes. I want to be able to say, hey, Alexa, go run PTSD in the living room. It just runs and flickers light. The reason that doesn't exist yet because I already designed it is I can't turn the lights on and off a thousand times a second because Phillips put a bridge on there. So when you turn a light switch on, the lights don't come on. They take a couple hundred milliseconds so it doesn't shock your eyes. If somebody at Phillips would ever call me back and tell me how I get around your stupid bridge, we'd have an app right now. They turn all of five billion smart bulbs in the world into therapy devices. So turning your phone into it, turning lights into it. Those are all super cool things to put yourself out of business, but get it to the masses. And yeah, that little dongle thing I just showed you may put me out of business, but it's a way to get it in everybody's hands.

Andy Smith 01:01:08 
Yeah, and I think that's a really cool development, you know, people are investing in these EMF blocking stickers and sorry to all our listeners, they don't work. So, you know, just, you know, I've tested a bunch of, someone might prove me wrong, but I've tested a bunch of those with the EMF meters and it makes absolutely no difference. But I like your idea of plugging something in that would then actually produce, you know, low frequency or, you know, harmonizing PMS that makes way more sense. If you hit that nail on the head, then, you know, you'll be multi billionaire. So try and try and get that one in before someone else does. But yeah, I mean, great, great technology and great idea, you know, and then for our guys probably, you know, stay away from those stickers. Where can people find you, Mark? You know, if somebody wants to check out your product or get in contact with you or the company, where's the best place to start?

Mark L Fox 01:02:09 
Yeah, Rezona Health, R-E-S-O-N-A, it's short for resonance. So, Rezona.health, there's no .com. They go there. If it's easier to remember, Go Find Joy, which is my latest book, then just go to GoFindJoy.com, which talks a lot about vagus nerve, those type of things. But those are two easiest places to start.

Andy Smith 01:02:27 
Mm hmm. Excellent. Thanks a lot. So for our listeners, thank you for everybody for listening today. You know, if you enjoyed it, please subscribe, please leave us a five star review. It really helps on you know, on any streaming platform you're listening on. It will bring us more guests encourage more guests that can kind of come on here, share their knowledge and you know, we can make this, you know, we can make PEMF a household thing. So thanks again, Mark, for your time.

Mark L Fox 01:02:51 
Hey, thank you so much for having me, I really enjoyed it.